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The Sultan's Game. Variant on 11 by 11 board from 19th century Germany. (11x11, Cells: 121) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Georgi Markov wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Thank you very much indeed!

Meanwhile, I realized I seem to have somehow misread your "search for the Archiv der Spiele" as "search within"; I hope this link works:

Grand Apothecary Chess-Classic. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Bn Em wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Indeed, it seems that either the knight's verbal description or its XBetza move has been exchanged with the one in the Modern game.


The Sultan's Game. Variant on 11 by 11 board from 19th century Germany. (11x11, Cells: 121) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Bn Em wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Indeed, that was my impression from his book as well; I'd initially missed the detail of how recent this variant was and had assumed it significantly older (and I don't trust people to count like we do today(!)).

I enjoyed the other papers you posted here and look forward to reading this one too

Grand Apothecary Chess-Classic. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

@Aurelian: I haven't had time to visit CVP since it came back on line. I will have a look at the shuffling problem you mentioned.

@Jean-Louis: there is an explanation of y and a here. Indeed a means 'again', and y can be used only in combinaton with it, where ya then means 'again with range toggle', i.e. when the move started as a leaper (as is the case with F) the next leg will move as a rider of the same stride. fs means 'forward sideways', but the convention is that this should be interpreted in an orientation where the previous leg defines the forward direction (think of the controversy for the move of the Grant Acedrex Unicorn!). So fs deflects the path by 45 degrees, pure s would deflect by 90 degrees, bs would deflect by 135 degrees. So the ya would turn the F into B (range toggle), but a 45-degree rotated B is an R. So yafsF is an F step followed by an outward R. Without the y (i.e. afsF) there would be no range toggle, and the second leg would be an outward W step. Which would give you a Moa.

Bn Em wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Apparently I forgot to add the link to the XBetza page in my previous comment; I've now added it there.

yafsF is indeed the sliding part. a is as you've found, ‘again’; fs for w's and F's is interpreted as for a king, so for an F it changes to a W direction — and ‘forward’ for anything but the first part of the move is interpreted as ‘outward’ (like Alfonso about the rhinoceros); y is a ‘range toggle’ i.e. it switches from being a leaper/stepper to being a slider. Thus, yafsF is one step diagonally followed by a 45° turn and sliding orthogonally.

Complexity is in the eye of the beholder. It's not immediately obvious (especially compared to t[FR]) but it's apperntly easier to describe to a computer (and easier to generalise), which for the interactive diagrams is a definite plus

Daniel Zacharias wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

The extended betza notation is explained here. The "fs" is understood as specifying a direction relative to the initial step, so it indicates that the gryphon moves, after the first step, forward and sideways relative to the direction it first moves. It is a more complex notation, but it allows for more possibilities.

I notice here that the knight's move in the rules is different from that in the interactive diagram. Which one is correct?

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

I have difficulties to see FyafsF. OK for the 1st F, then yafsF is therefore describing the "rook" sliding part of the move? I understand "fs" in the case of a N. In the case of a F, I don't see what "fs" mean.

And this can really code when the Gryphon is sliding backward?

Finally, I don't know what the modifiers y and a are. I don't see the explanation on our page on CVP. I see on WP, I understand "a" as again, but it is quite difficult what "y" means.

All this is really too complex

The Sultan's Game. Variant on 11 by 11 board from 19th century Germany. (11x11, Cells: 121) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Georgi Markov wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Tressau modified the rules for the Kaiserspiel (e.g. castling rule is different in the Archiv der Spiele description) and practically developed the rules for the Sultanspiel himself based on Peguilhen's initial - but never fully developed - idea. Later sources are ultimately based on Tressau, with errors. Thus it's Tressau's rules that should be taken as definitive, the illustrative games were played by Tressau himself and after his own rules, so there is hardly any chance for a misunderstanding. There's a discussion of all that in my paper in press, I'll provide a link when it's published.

Bn Em wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Ok, having actually gone to find a copy online, I agree that Tressau specifies the Kb/j–Rc/i castle; in principle one could still object that the example games may not be played by the original rules (while he says they're real, rather than constructed, games, it could still be under the influence of a misunderstanding), but it seems upon a cursory reading that for the Sultan's Game in particular his book may in fact be the original source? The Emperors Game is cited in the Spielarchiv, but Tressau explicitly notes (p.80) that a game with a Marshal had been suggested there but not described, rather being rejected due to the necessary odd number of files being unwieldy (in particular due to either same‐colour bishops or transposition of one bishop but not the other with its adjacent knight).

Unfortunately a quick search for the Archiv der Spiele online appears entirely fruitless so I can't confirm that…

The Game of the Three Kingdoms. inese Chess for three players (Game of the Three Kingdoms). (Cells: 135) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Adam DeWitt wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

What if there was a two player version? Or I could just make one myself...

Grand Apothecary Chess-Classic. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Bn Em wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

The dragon is indeed a t[FR], in Betza's original notation. However, that part of it was never documented on the Betza Notation page (instead languishing on the Chess on a Really Big Board page, though it turns up elsewhere too), and is arguably a little underspecified, so H. G.'s XBetza (which is what the interactive diagram uses) specifies such multi‐leg moves in its own way. In this extension, FyafsF is indeed equivalent to the original t[FR]

The vulture afaict is mainly a longer‐range relative of George Duke's (and more recently Uli Schwekendiek's) Falcon, whose advantage over the bison (from a game design perspective) is its blockability — presumably the same is sought here. Unfortunately, due to the multiple paths to a given destination, it is quite complex to describe. Idk about the extra knight move though, that's perhaps a little gratuitous (presumably to make up for the basic vutlre's lack of maneuverability?)

I agree the birds are quite complex, if potentially interesting to play with? And whether the knight/elephant enhancements are truly necessary may be worth a playtest as well

The Sultan's Game. Variant on 11 by 11 board from 19th century Germany. (11x11, Cells: 121) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Georgi Markov wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

Tressau does not explicitly mention how many spaces the rook goes, but the landing square for R in the Sultan's game is obvious enough from the provided illustrative games: see mating position in game 1 (p. 87) and move 28 in game 4 (p. 89). [On move 20, White castles "to the right"; move 28 is Ri1-f1, or 119 to 116 in the original notation; that's the first R move after castling].

Grand Apothecary Chess-Classic. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

May I ask few questions:

  • why is the board checkered with 4 colors instead of 2?

  • is the Betza's notation for the Dragon correct? According to the textual description I would say t[FR] and not FyafsF. (I understood the Dragon is a Murray's Gryphon)

  • Why is the Vulture so complex? Why not a mere compound jumper Giraffe + Zebra?

It is a matter of taste of course, but to my taste I wonder why making more complex several piece which are basically simple such as Knight (N is not enough?), Elephant (FA not enough?). Thurderbird and Firebird are very complex. I would like to play this game but with simpler rules.

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2021-10-25 UTC

HG, Are you here?

Pandemonium (Surajang修羅場). Capablanca chess + Crazyhouse.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Daphne Snowmoon wrote on 2021-10-24 UTC

I implemented the piece icon, how to install, and more!

Please teach me how to type < W > (Without space)[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
You-Ting Chu wrote on 2021-10-24 UTC

OK, thank you very much!

Daniel Zacharias wrote on 2021-10-24 UTC

<This> seems to work in WYSIWYG, and also in markdown if you do <this\>

It seems like you can also use &lt; and &gt;

You-Ting Chu wrote on 2021-10-24 UTC
Hello, guys,

I want to post something, but every time I type something enclosed by "<>", it disappeared, even in the Text format (apparently it's not pure text format).

Could somebody please be so kind and teach me how to do it?

Much appreciated!

Rollerball. Chess race fight on board formed by removing 3 by 3 square from center of 7 by 7 square. (7x7, Cells: 40) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Fergus Duniho wrote on 2021-10-23 UTC


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-23 UTC

This page has the old template, it is even not possible to the see the up bar with the menu. Is it possible to change that? Thank you

Vao. moves like bishop but must jump when taking.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-23 UTC

@Ben: yes, the simplest I could do is to edit this page in the CVP format:

Ben Reiniger wrote on 2021-10-22 UTC

@Jean-Louis, those carved pieces look great! Would you mind sometime adding an article including the images? (You can start it as a Game page, but we'd change the type over to Craft before publishing.)

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-22 UTC

Yes this one. As I said it is the only representation we have of Grant Acedrex. When you see on a good definition, it can be seen that Aanca, Unicornio and Cocatriz are not represented as chimeras, compound monsters of different parts of different animals as it was the tradition in Middle Ages for gryphons, sphinx, etc. They are depicted as very simple silhouettes. A big fat bird with a curved beak, a horned big animal on its legs, a flat sort of lizard. Sonja Musser sees them as a giant prey bird, a rhinoceros and a crocodile. For me, it is the best interpretation.

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-10-22 UTC

yes Fergus. Take it easy, don't be so bad with me. Let me play with my Crocodile, it is not a crime. It is not so stupid either with the diagonal move. Bow, Arrow are also good choices, maybe better and I don't pretend to force anybody to use Crocodile. At least I hope Crocodile was not used for something else. Naming pieces is difficult because it may create confusion. For example Champion in Omega Chess. They were different Champions before in history of CV. Or the numerous Hawks and Falcons, all different. Before Crocodile I was using Bow. I stopped using Bow because I discovered the Hunter of Hunter/Falcon chess where the Hunter was represented by a Bow. That's it. Later I've made my own set in wood and my Crocodile is cute! I can't throw it away, I have to use it now

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2021-10-22 UTC

I have moved this discussion to the Vao page.

I assume JL means this one?

Okay, I missed that, because I was looking for an illustration of the piece itself and didn't realize he meant the illustration of the board. The piece in the Bishops's position has four legs and the general shape of a crocodile. So, crocodile may be a fair translation. But my other point still stands. Since the piece that could be translated as crocodile was a Bishop and not a Vao, it doesn't set any precedent or provide a good enough reason for using that name for the Vao.

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