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Dai Seireigi. Variant of Dai Shogi playable with drops. (15x15, Cells: 225) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🔔Notification on Thu, Feb 29 09:36 PM UTC:

The author, A. M. DeWitt, has updated this page.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 17 05:20 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 05:01 PM:

I have other reasons to make a distinct Stork; but as you said, ibis--wizard should work for now, and updating graphics is easy.

As for updating the GC present... "Have fun storming the castle!"


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Wed, Jan 17 05:01 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 04:41 PM:

The simple Bear icon works just as well in my opinion, but that Strong Bear icon is a perfect alternative. As for the Wizard Stork, we could just use the Ibis icon combined with a Wizard icon. Ibises and storks are closely related.

However, for now I am focused on making an up-to-date version of this game's the GC preset. Updating graphics is easy. Not so for GC Presets with full rule enforcement and display of legal moves.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Jan 17 04:41 PM UTC:

I found a good Strong Bear combo too, as a possibility:

I'll get to work on a Stork icon for the Wizard Stork, too. (Short-term, I'd suggest the Ibis, Goose, or Ostrich with the Wizard or Charm icon behind).


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sun, Jan 14 05:08 PM UTC:

A few icon recommendations/suggestions:

  • For the Wooden Dove, consider bird--evergreen. (The evergreen modifier is specifically for "wooden" pieces.) Then the bird--wings can go to the Flying Swallow.
  • For the Flying Cat, use tressym. (That's what a tressym is -- a cat with owl wings.)
  • For the Roaring Dog, dog--wind isn't quite a bad choice, but maybe dog--pow could work.

Addendum: With the recent update to my set, a piece that's "flying" can also be indicated with Element: Air as a (usually) foreground modifier.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Mon, Jan 1 02:32 PM UTC:

The new version of Dai Seireigi is ready.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 04:58 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 04:18 PM:

It's a pretty easy tool, once one gets the hang of it. Here's what the Golden Finch would look like, if you'd decided to go that route:

Or the Flying Ox could've been:

The whole thing is set up with the idea of using compounds to make just about anything (though I do still have a bunch of icons to upload, once other matters are taken care of).

The combination can be a real Marvel.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 04:18 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 04:02 PM:

That fen2 tool may be helpful in the future...


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 04:02 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 02:28 AM:

OK. I generate these using H.G.'s fen2 tool, so since you'll rename them anyway, here's the set:

(Correction to the previous: the standard Black color is #666666.)


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 02:28 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 02:19 AM:

The Golden Finch and Winged Horse options seem good. I'd have to make new icons (I have a specific "finch" icon so finch-goldgeneral instead of bird-goldgeneral; and then, horse-wings instead of horse-angel), but I'd even call them new inventions. The Winged Horse could even use a simple pegasus icon (if not the name).

I'm not actually renaming the Golden Bird and Heavenly Horse, as there is simply no need to. I'm simply pointing out the fact that these options exist due to translations from their current Japanese names (金翅 kinshi and 天馬 temma, respectively).

I can get on the Strong Bear and Running Leopard icons over the weekend, if you don't go do them yourself. (The bear should be fine by itself, just removing the sword; the Running Leopard will be leopard-wind.) I can also do the Golden Finch and Winged Horse icons if you decide to go that route.

(The colors, in case you decide to do them yourself, are A9A9A9, 444444, 80FF80, and 008000.)

The only thing I plan on doing myself is uploading the updated images to the directory used by the Diagram. It makes much more sense to have you update the images themselves, seeing as you are the official author of these graphics.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 02:19 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 01:47 AM:

The Golden Finch and Winged Horse options seem good. I'd have to make new icons (I have a specific "finch" icon so finch-goldgeneral instead of bird-goldgeneral; and then, horse-wings instead of horse-angel), but I'd even call them new inventions. The Winged Horse could even use a simple pegasus icon (if not the name).

I can get on the Strong Bear and Running Leopard icons over the weekend, if you don't go do them yourself. (The bear should be fine by itself, just removing the sword; the Running Leopard will be leopard-wind.) I can also do the Golden Finch and Winged Horse icons if you decide to go that route.

(The colors, in case you decide to do them yourself, are A9A9A9, 444444, 80FF80, and 008000.)


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, Dec 9, 2023 01:47 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Mon Dec 4 11:07 PM:

While all the stated options are technically implementable, these are severely limited by the piece graphics available to me from Eric's 1-kanji set and from Ludii's Extended Shogi set. Many of the pieces have the same names but different moves when compared to their Shogi counterparts. However, I will summarize my thoughts on your picks below.

  • Flying Ox: While their are other options for this piece, none really go well with the theme of the games, which is a drops-playable version of their Shogi counterpart. Then there's also the problem of the Free Boar and what to change that to (this piece has fewer options and the same problem).
  • Golden Bird and Heavenly Horse: The former's full Kanji name translates to "Oriental greenfinch," and the first Kanji in the latter's full Kanji name also translates to "winged." Under this logic, you could call them Golden Finch and Winged Horse, respectively, and it would only barely be cheating.
  • KirinPhoenixLion, and Treacherous Fox: Unfortunately, these don't really have options for alternate names within the limits that I set for myself. For the latter, there is another fox piece that I could use (Dai Dai Shogi's Enchanted Fox), but it is displayed incorrectly in Ludii, thus making it unviable.

The Greenwade icons for the Strong Bear and Running Leopard may need to be adjusted depending on your preferences.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Mon, Dec 4, 2023 11:07 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 09:35 PM:

The main ones that have been causing confusion for me are the Kirin, Phoenix, and Lion, but I'll offer suggestions for all the ones I've detected. You can decide whether they're worthwhile, implementable, etc.

  • Flying Ox: This one is much more complex than the traditional vRB. To keep the same icon, all I can think of are slightly awkward names like Heavenly Ox, Divine Ox, or Cloud Ox (not that awkward names would be anything new in Shogi variants). For something completely new, it could be a Sky Dragon, Violent Ram, or War Eagle.
  • Golden Bird: This hardly resembles the traditional one at all. To keep the same icon, it'd have to remain Golden, and be a small bird; perhaps Golden Finch, Golden Swallow, or Golden Sparrow?
  • Heavenly Horse: Yours is much more powerful than the traditional Heavenly Horse (which is basically a Narrow Knight). This could be a Divine Horse or Spirit Horse (the Spirit Horse, I now learn, is part of the Bon festival).
  • Kirin: To the traditional FD, you've added an A; calling it Elephant Kirin seems unwieldy. Perhaps Grand Kirin, Regal Kirin, or Majestic Kirin.
  • Lion: The sting capture puts it halfway between the Modern Lion and the Japanese Lion. This one might be OK leaving it as just Lion, but perhaps Old Lion, Lunging Lion, or Lion's Claw could do too.
  • Phoenix: This has become WN instead of WA; sounds like it could be a Wandering Phoenix or (with a new icon) Drunken Phoenix.
  • Treacherous Fox: As with the Heavenly Horse, yours is much more powerful and aggressive. I'd suggest Tyrant Fox or Violent Fox. (The latter might call for a new icon.)
  • Violent Bear: Another amplified piece; perhaps, to go with the Cat Sword, it could be the Bear Sword? War Bear might work too, or Vicious Bear if you want to keep the initials.

Most if not all of these, given new names, would make for fun additions to my Thingiverse library, and the Piece of the Day series.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Mon, Dec 4, 2023 09:35 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 04:17 PM:

I do have one complaint about this game family: some pieces bear the names, but not the moves, of existing traditional Shogi pieces.

This is hardly a new precedent. Taikyoku Shogi does this with a ton of pieces that appear in smaller games. I simply used this same precedent when choosing the pieces for the Seireigi family, particularly when programming their Ludii files.

I think, at the least, the ones with altered moves should have new adjectives. (I'm fully willing to build new icons for them as needed.)

I must be very careful about this. Changing the name or move of a piece, especially while a game on GC is underway, can have a variety of unwanted effects (similar to when fixing that bug in Dai Seireigi broke our game forcing me to restart it). At some point it is better to maintain consistency than it is to change things to match the traditional Shogi roster.

Another variable to keep in mind is that the Seireigi family incorporates the drop rule. This rule demands that most pieces have a forward bias to their movements and that most pieces be relatively weak. This means I have to carefully consider what moves to give each piece so as not to destroy the delicate balance of power in each game.

That being said, renaming is not completely out of the realm of possibility for some pieces.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Mon, Dec 4, 2023 04:17 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 03:58 PM:

I do have one complaint about this game family: some pieces bear the names, but not the moves, of existing traditional Shogi pieces. I think, at the least, the ones with altered moves should have new adjectives. (I'm fully willing to build new icons for them as needed.)


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Mon, Dec 4, 2023 03:58 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:42 PM:

Oops.

Edit: This is now fixed.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Mon, Dec 4, 2023 03:42 PM UTC:

You currently linked my name to Eric Silverman's "who" page. :)

When you go to correct that, you might also provide a link to my full collection.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Tue, Nov 7, 2023 12:55 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Sun Nov 5 06:41 PM:

If you ever get around to a rule-enforcing Game Courier preset for this, send me an invite.

I just finished making a rule-enforcing preset for Chu Seireigi, which is pretty similar.

It might be a little while before I finish a Dai Seireigi preset due to needing to program the hook movers (Hook Mover, Capricorn, Square Mover, and Great Dragon) and promotable stinging pieces (Poisonous Snake and Cat Sword) and their corresponding rule enforcement.

Edit: I figured out how to code the hook-moving pieces with logride. The rest is actually rather simple.

However, in the meantime, I'll send you an invite for Chu Seireigi. Look for it in your GC logs (<User> -> Your Games on Game Courier)

You'll probably take me down within 15 moves (actually, 10 wouldn't surprise me), but I really like the looks of this game.

Your probably right that I will win, but it'll take a lot more than 15 moves. The range-jumpers only jump once, and the hook movers cannot jump at all. Furthermore, there's plenty of chances for mistakes to be made, allowing you at least a small chance of victory. This is also the case for Chu Seireigi, which doesn't have range-jumpers or hook movers at all.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sun, Nov 5, 2023 06:41 PM UTC:

If you ever get around to a rule-enforcing Game Courier preset for this, send me an invite. You'll probably take me down within 15 moves (actually, 10 wouldn't surprise me), but I really like the looks of this game.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Fri, Sep 22, 2023 07:00 PM UTC:

The new version of Dai Seireigi is ready.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Sep 16, 2023 03:44 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 02:43 AM:

I don't see the error you are referring to. Maybe try refreshing your browser cache?

The Phoenix description says: "The Phoenix jumps to the second square in any diagonal direction or moves one square in any orthogonal direction. (WA)"

The Kirin description says: "The Kirin jumps to the second square in any diagonal direction or moves one square in any orthogonal direction. (FD)"

I'm pretty sure the Kirin jumps to the second square in any orthogonal direction, or moves one square in any diagonal direction. At least, that's what I'm used to seeing, and what the FD tells me.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, Sep 16, 2023 02:43 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Fri Sep 15 09:58 PM:

I am actually doing an overhaul of this game that has pieces promoting in blocks as in Chu Shogi, in order to reduce the learning curve.

  • The Kirin listing describes the Phoenix move; I think you did a copy-and-paste and forgot to edit (as I often do).

I don't see the error you are referring to. Maybe try refreshing your browser cache?

  • I'm a little confused by the description of the "stinging moves." I get the part about making a capture and then moving to an adjacent space other than the space of origin, but I do not understand the other option.

Stinging moves are Dai Seireigi's version of Lion moves, specifically weakened to compensate for the drop rule. With a stinging move you can do one of the following:

  • Step to the stinging square and do nothing (normal step move)
  • Step to the stinging square and then step to any empty adjacent square that is not the origin square, capturing or ignoring what is on the stinging square
  • Capture a piece on the stinging square without moving
  • Which of these pieces are your own creation? A lot of them look interesting, though I see a fair bit of overlap in names with existing pieces in my collection (though to be fair most of those pieces are fairly obscure).

All of the new pieces used appear somewhere in Taikyoku Shogi, but have different moves and promotions here.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Fri, Sep 15, 2023 09:58 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from Thu May 25 08:53 PM:

Just a few notes:

  • The Kirin listing describes the Phoenix move; I think you did a copy-and-paste and forgot to edit (as I often do).
  • I'm a little confused by the description of the "stinging moves." I get the part about making a capture and then moving to an adjacent space other than the space of origin, but I do not understand the other option.
  • Which of these pieces are your own creation? A lot of them look interesting, though I see a fair bit of overlap in names with existing pieces in my collection (though to be fair most of those pieces are fairly obscure).

💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, May 25, 2023 08:53 PM UTC:

Dai Seireigi is ready.


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