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HnefaChess. (Updated!) The best combination of Chess and Hnefatafl. (Cells: 228) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Mar 26 05:29 PM UTC in reply to Florin Lupusoru from 04:49 PM:

As I mentioned earlier, I had the same problem with Zwangkrieg. I'm sure Fergus will be on it by day's end. :)


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Tue, Mar 26 04:49 PM UTC:

This page doesn't show up in the Alphabetical Index because the group "Hn" does not exist yet. Could anybody solve this problem please? 


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Fri, Mar 22 03:49 AM UTC:

There is nothing else to add here. This page should be ready. 


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Mar 16 02:08 PM UTC in reply to Florin Lupusoru from 04:45 AM:

(Personally, I'd want to change the Chinese Pawns to Guardians or Anti-Pawns, but that's just me.)

That would make them too powerful. 

Seriously??? Guardians are no more powerful than Stewards, any more than (actual) Berolina Pawns are more powerful than orthodox Pawns. (And that's an "apples-to-apples" comparison, since the Guardian is basically a Berolina Steward.) Anti-Pawns would actually make them less powerful, since they'd have no forward or sideways move.


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Sat, Mar 16 12:30 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 06:57 AM:

I have updated the page with the new suggestions. This should be ready now. 


🔔Notification on Sat, Mar 16 12:25 PM UTC:

The author, Florin Lupusoru, has updated this page.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Mar 16 06:57 AM UTC:

I don't think there is any need to show a separate image of an empty board. It is easy enough to recognize the board in the image where it has pieces on it.

The remark that "the black queen swaps places with the black king" is confusing rather than illuminating, because one could think this is an allowed move in the game. Presumably it intends to say that the initial setup is rotation symmetric rather than reflection symmetric, but the formulation doesn't make sense, because this is not an 8x8 board, there is no more commonly used start position on this board that has the black Queen and King in swapped locations, and to get from 8x8 FIDE to the given position you have to do a whole lot more than swap black King and Queen.

What does it mean that "a King cannot be checkmated"? A player is only allowed to deliver check when the opponent is left with at least one move that resolves this check? (A rule somewhat similar to the Shogi rule that you cannot checkmate by dropping a Pawn. It could also be formulated by saying checkmate is a win for the checkmated player.) [Edit] OK, I see that you answered that below. But it should be clarified in the article, not in the Comments.

'Columns' of a chess board are usually called 'files'. It would be clearer to write an explicit "(i-file for white, h-file for black)" rather than saying "(from each player's perspective)". And similar for 8th and 9th rank.

What if a normal Pawn ends up outside the central 8x8 area? Would it also promote on 12th or 5th rank, would it promote on 16th/1st rank, or can it no longer promote at all?


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Sat, Mar 16 06:27 AM UTC in reply to Daniel Zacharias from 06:20 AM:

You are right. I have confused their placement with the way they move. 


Daniel Zacharias wrote on Sat, Mar 16 06:20 AM UTC in reply to Florin Lupusoru from 06:04 AM:

14 Pawns (Horizontal Pawns) placed behind the enemy line 14 Pawns (Vertical Pawns) placed on their own right gate

That looks better, except I think you got the horizontal and vertical mixed up in this part of the description


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Sat, Mar 16 06:04 AM UTC in reply to Daniel Zacharias from 05:53 AM:

You could give them different names without changing the images. The name "berolina pawn" especially is specific enough to be confusing if it's used for a piece that is not a berolina pawn. What about Horizonal Pawns and Vertical Pawns; or Side Pawns and End Pawns?

Ok. You are right. I just updated the rules. 


Daniel Zacharias wrote on Sat, Mar 16 05:53 AM UTC:

You could give them different names without changing the images. The name "berolina pawn" especially is specific enough to be confusing if it's used for a piece that is not a berolina pawn. What about Horizonal Pawns and Vertical Pawns; or Side Pawns and End Pawns?


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Sat, Mar 16 04:45 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 02:11 AM:

(Personally, I'd want to change the Chinese Pawns to Guardians or Anti-Pawns, but that's just me.)

That would make them too powerful. 

I prefer using different Pawns both for estetic purposes, but also because each type of Pawn promotes on a different line/column and we need to prevent cheating. 


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Sat, Mar 16 04:41 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 12:50 AM:

If these two Pawn types are essentially the same, you might as well replace both with Stewards, which have the same move (move without capturing one square orthogonally, capture one square diagonally).

The reason I am using Pawns and not Stewards is for estetic purposes. The second reason is that Chinese Pawns promote on a row, while Berolina Pawns promote on a column. Using three types of Pawns will also prevent cheating. 

The Kings can not move into check or be checkmated. 

Does that last part (or be checkmated) mean that other pieces cannot put the King in check?

The King can be in check but players are not allowed to deliver checkmate because they will lose the game. 


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Mar 16 02:11 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 12:50 AM:

Both Berolina and Chinese Pawns are omnidirectional Pawns. They move orthogonally (one square only) but capture diagonally.

If these two Pawn types are essentially the same, you might as well replace both with Stewards, which have the same move (move without capturing one square orthogonally, capture one square diagonally).

This is approximately what I was trying to get at earlier. There's not really any reason to call them Berolina and Chinese Pawns when they don't move like those pieces, but instead move like Stewards. And if a piece basically is a Steward, why not call it that?

(Personally, I'd want to change the Chinese Pawns to Guardians or Anti-Pawns, but that's just me.)

And just to clarify: these Stewards promote when reaching e12-m12 for White, or e5-m5 for Black, right?


A. M. DeWitt wrote on Sat, Mar 16 12:50 AM UTC in reply to Florin Lupusoru from Thu Mar 14 11:30 PM:

Both Berolina and Chinese Pawns are omnidirectional Pawns. They move orthogonally (one square only) but capture diagonally.

If these two Pawn types are essentially the same, you might as well replace both with Stewards, which have the same move (move without capturing one square orthogonally, capture one square diagonally).

The Kings can not move into check or be checkmated. 

Does that last part (or be checkmated) mean that other pieces cannot put the King in check?

Guards move one square orthogonally and diagonally in any direction. . 

I assume here you mean "Guards move one square in any orthogonal or diagonal direction, akin to a non-royal King."


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Thu, Mar 14 11:30 PM UTC:

I hope the updated rules have covered everything. 


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Thu, Mar 14 04:50 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Wed Mar 13 03:25 PM:

Please have a look at the updated diagram. I also added the Guards. 


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Wed, Mar 13 06:17 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:25 PM:
  • About promotions:
    • Do the orthodox Pawns not promote?
    • Where do the Berolina Pawns/Stewards promote?
    • If you change the Chinese Pawns to Anti-Pawns, they too might promote somewhere.

Yes. Orthodox Pawns promote normally. 

Berolina Pawns also promote but I have to decide wheter in the center of the board or on the same promotion line. And if you think the Chinese Pawns (or Anti Pawns) have to promote too, I'll make the necessary adjustments. 

  • I'd suggest simplifying this: the Kings cannot be captured, but also cannot move into check.

Ok. I'll change that. 


💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Wed, Mar 13 06:09 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:25 PM:
  • The text mentions the additional Rook, Bishops, and Knights, but doesn't quite agree with the earlier section that these pieces are optional, or that they're specifically put to the player's left. (If you're still trying to decide whether to use these pieces, I'd vote no.)

I made both diagrams in a hurry and I wasn't sure which version would be better. Ok. I'll remove the extra pieces from the corner. 

The Berolina and Chinese "Pawns" are basically Stewards, aren't they? I'd suggest replacing the Berolina Pawns with Stewards, at least, so the name matches up with the move; perhaps the Chinese Pawns could be replaced with Anti-Pawns (which move just like orthodox Pawns, but backwards; I think others call it the Reverse Pawn).

The Hnefatafl game had some kind of Pawns and I would like to stick to that for estetic purposes. 

 


Bob Greenwade wrote on Wed, Mar 13 03:25 PM UTC:

Well, for one thing, when this game is approved, Fergus is going to have to add another slot in the Alphabetical Index for Hn. ;) (I had a corresponding issue with Zwangkrieg.)

There are a few things to clarify, though:

  • The text mentions the additional Rook, Bishops, and Knights, but doesn't quite agree with the earlier section that these pieces are optional, or that they're specifically put to the player's left. (If you're still trying to decide whether to use these pieces, I'd vote no.)
  • The Berolina and Chinese "Pawns" are basically Stewards, aren't they? I'd suggest replacing the Berolina Pawns with Stewards, at least, so the name matches up with the move; perhaps the Chinese Pawns could be replaced with Anti-Pawns (which move just like orthodox Pawns, but backwards; I think others call it the Reverse Pawn).
    • If you go with the Stewards, you could also put some Guardians (basically, Berolina Stewards) in with them for variety.
  • About promotions:
    • Do the orthodox Pawns not promote?
    • Where do the Berolina Pawns/Stewards promote?
    • If you change the Chinese Pawns to Anti-Pawns, they too might promote somewhere.
  • You say, "The Kings can be in check but checkmating them will lose the game." Does this mean that a King in check doesn't have to move out of check -- or that the King can even move into check deliberately? If so, can a King be captured? And I presume that checkmating a King loses the game for the King's player, not the checkmating player.
    • I'd suggest simplifying this: the Kings cannot be captured, but also cannot move into check.

💡📝Florin Lupusoru wrote on Wed, Mar 13 02:08 PM UTC:

Please let me know what you think about this game. 


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