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Bent Riders. A discussion of pieces, like the Gryphon, that take a step then move as riders.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Bn Em wrote on Fri, Mar 22 10:22 PM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 03:26 AM:

Note that Betza's Twin Tower moves outward forward or backward; i.e. it's the same piece as Jean‐Louis' Ship, and thus shouldn't be able to reach the sW squares at all.

Incidentally, the Twin Tower paragraph has a dangling footnote reference; Greg's edits effaced the original footnote (a jokingly cynical take on World Trade Centre merchandise). Is it worth restoring that (It's probably still on the Internet Archive somewhere), or better to simply remove the footnote reference?

H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Mar 22 07:43 AM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 03:26 AM:

You could also call them the Bent Betzas!

Note that Americans might get upset by the pun.

HaruN Y wrote on Fri, Mar 22 03:26 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Betzan Benders

files=8 ranks=8 useMarkers=1 symmetry=none borders=0 promoZone=1 promoChoice=NBRQ graphicsDir= squareSize=50 graphicsType= symmetry=none coordColor=#f8bcc6 rimColor=#633514 lightShade=#fbb09e darkShade=#de8768 firstRank=1 pawn:P:ifmnDfmWfceF:pawn:a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2,g2,h2,,a7,b7,c7,d7,e7,f7,g7,h7 knight:N:N:knight:b1,g1 bishop:B:B:bishop:c1,f1 rook:R:R:rook:a1,h1 queen:Q:Q:queen:d1 vivi:V:vWfyafsWbyabsW:wazir--bishop:,,c8,f8 crooked crabinal:C:fbsNvW(az)F:crookedbishop--crab:,,d8 major annoyance:A:sWsyyyafsWbW:nightrider--sidemover:,,b8,g8 twin tower:✈️:FyafqF:promotedrook--rook:,,a8,h8 king:K:KisO2:king:e1,,e8

Army with Bent Riders invented by gnohmon.

HaruN Y wrote on Mon, Mar 18 01:59 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Sun Mar 17 10:53 PM:

I'm thinking about creating a page consisting of links to comments that have interactive diagrams of variants I invented instead of making a page for each of them but currently there aren't too many. You can make the page for this game if you want.

Bob Greenwade wrote on Sun, Mar 17 10:53 PM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 06:31 PM:

This game needs a page of its own. I will Favorite it right away.

Bob Greenwade wrote on Sun, Mar 17 06:47 PM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 06:31 PM:

Yowza! Now I have a slew of candidates for both Piece of the Day and Unnecessarily Complicated Chess! :)

HaruN Y wrote on Sun, Mar 17 06:31 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

15 Random Bent Riders Chess

files=15 ranks=8 promoZone=2 promoChoice=RGMQNZKFPIDEJWVXLSCHYUOTB shuffle=RGMQNZKFPIDEJWVXLSCHYUOTB graphicsDir= squareSize=50 graphicsType= firstRank=1 borders=0 coordColor=#f8bcc6 rimColor=#633514 lightShade=#de8768 darkShade=#fbb09e holeColor=#5a3136 oddShade=#f8bcc6 hole::::i1,j1-m1,n1,i2,j2-m2,n2,i3,j3-n3,i4,j4,k4,l4,m4,n4,i5,j5,k5,l5,m5,n5,i6,j6,i7,j7,n7,i8,j8,n8,o1,o2,o3,o4,o5,o6,o7,o8 Opting Glasgow Pawn:A:fmnW2fceF:pawn--pawn:a4-h4,a3,b3,c3,d3,e3,f3,g3,h3,,a6,b6,c6,d6,e6,f6,g6,h6:8 unicorn:R:ympafsW:knight--bishop:a2,,a7:1 Ferz Trojan:G:FyafsF:ferz--rook:b2,,b7:1 Osprey:M:DmpafyafsW:warmachine--bishop:c2,,c7:2 pegasus:Q:ympafsF:knight--rook:d2,,d7:1 Crossing Dabbabarider:N:DyasD:warmachine--warmachinerider:e2,,e7:4 Crossing Alfilrider:Z:AyasA:elephant--elephantrider:f2,,f7:8 Crossing Bear:K:FyyasF:ferz--elephantrider:g2,,g7:2 Aviaanca:F:WyyafsW:wazir--elephantrider:h2,,h7:1 Spotted Osprey:P:DyafsD:elephant--warmachinerider:a1,,a8:4 Spotted Gryphon:I:FyyafsF:ferz--warmachinerider:b1,,b8:2 Crossing Panda:D:WyyasW:wazir--warmachinerider:c1,,c8:1 Annoying Dog:E:WyyyafsW:wazir--nightrider:d1,,d8:1 Annoying Ferz:J:FyyyafsF:ferz--nightrider:f1,,f8:1 Zuma:W:AmpafyasF:elephant--bishop:g1,,g8:2 Ostrich:V:AmpafyafsF:elephant--rook:h1,,h8:1 Alfil Trojan:X:AyafsA:elephant--warmachinerider:k3,,k6:4:4 Lampir:L:DmpafyasW:warmachine--rook:k2,,k7:1 CAT:S:NmpafsyyafF:knight--warmachinerider:o2,,o7:1 Aanca:C:WyafsW:wazir--bishop:l3,,l6:1 Crossing Bishop:H:FyasF:ferz--bishop:l2,,l7:2 Annoying Elephant:Y:AyyyafsA:elephant--nightrider:o3,,o6:1 Trojaanca:U:NmpafsyyafW:knight--elephantrider:m3,,m6:1 Annoying Crow:O:DyyyafsD:warmachine--nightrider:m2,,m7:1 Crossing Nightrider:T:NyasN:knight--nightrider:n2,,n7:1 Crossing Rook:B:WyasW:wazir--rook:n3,,n6:1 king:#:KisO2:king:e1,,e8:1

Some pieces are named by me.

Bob Greenwade wrote on Sun, Sep 17, 2023 09:01 PM UTC:

I've been contemplating the idea of bent riders that make 135-degree turns; the Vivi already has one of these, taking one Wazir step back and then moving forward like a Bishop (one step forward then forward like a Bishop also being an option). A piece I call the Double-Cross moves one step sideways, then turns around to move like a Bishop, and of course that's just the beginning.

Anyway, I'm seeing some decent uses for the Annoyances; like the Vivi, they can be decent pieces in the row right behind the Pawns on large-board games.

(I'm also thinking of experimenting with some 180-degree turns.)

Bn Em wrote on Tue, Feb 15, 2022 02:52 PM UTC in reply to KelvinFox from 01:52 PM:

Speaking of both names and M&B, worth noting that Paulowich's Spotted Gryphon is called an Angel there, and Gilman's Nightingale is close to your F-then-W-then-DD piece, though it cannot stop on the F square (and thus makes exactly an even number of steps). The Chainsaw (and a whole class of related pieces) remains unnamed.

KelvinFox wrote on Tue, Feb 15, 2022 01:52 PM UTC:

About piece names: F-then-DD is used in one of David Paulowich's games, with a compound with rook too (Spotted Gryphon and Chainsaw). I recently thought of a F-then-W-then-DD piece. About Man-and-Beast, those definitely deserve a rework

H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Feb 24, 2021 03:58 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 03:44 PM:

Ski-sliders are another example. The Ski-Bishop starts like Alfil, and then continues as Ferz-rider (= Bishop) in the same direction.

Greg Strong wrote on Wed, Feb 24, 2021 03:50 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 03:44 PM:

Yes, the Seeping Switchers army uses this idea. The rook you describe is called the Slip Rook there.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Feb 24, 2021 03:44 PM UTC:

Last night I was thinking of bent riders that are not bent in the sense of changing direction. I suppose they are among the 25 possibilities Betza mentions, but I don't think he elaborated on them. One piece I was thinking of would initially move as a Wazir, then if it continues, continue as a Dabbabbah-Rider. Unlike the Dabbabbah-Rider, this would not be color-bound. Another one would initially move as a Ferz, then if it continues, continue as an Alfil-Rider. Unlike the Alfil-Rider, this would be able to reach every space of the same color instead of just half of them. I was thinking I might call these the Shifty Rook and the Shifty Bishop and their compound the Shifty Queen. Has anyone used these pieces before?

Bn Em wrote on Thu, Dec 17, 2020 08:29 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from Wed Dec 16 06:39 PM:

Iirc what happened with the diagrams was that after they were added some changes were made to Fergus' Diagram Designer which meant that the FEN Charles used no longer generates dots in the images (M&B09 actually got off pretty good here as most of the diagrams there have numbers); Charles seems to have disappeared though so noöne has fixed them.

I agree it's a long and difficult piece of writing, all the more so because of how much it has to get through; and it takes some time to get familiar with (though as you say, there's a bunch of interesting things in there, including stuff which he's thought of by exhaustion that occasionally comes up in these comment sections with questions as to whether anyone's though of this yet). Not sure how easy it'd be to rework though without making it several times longer still… (maybe it'd work as a series of videos??)

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, Dec 16, 2020 06:39 PM UTC:

Alas this Man & Beast series for me is frustrating. For reasons I don't know, I see no moves on the diagrams, only a large chessboard and a poor lonely piece in the center. The accompanying text is so long, difficult to get something useful. Too bad because it is a huge work with probably a lot of good points inside. It will deserve a rework.

Bn Em wrote on Wed, Dec 16, 2020 02:53 PM UTC:

Wrt piece names, Gilman's Man and Beast series is always worth looking at if you can find your way around (it's invaluable for its comprehensiveness if equally forbidding for its density)

In particular wrt bent pieces, M&B09 suggests Anchorite for W‐then‐B (“after a kind of religious hermit” that sounds like ‘Aanca’, which he rejected for similar reasons). D‐then‐B (Osprey in another variant that came out earlier this year iirc) is suggested as Lama, and its counterpart A‐then‐R is a Zephyr.

N‐then‐B (the GA unicorn/rhinoceros) is omitted, presumably as being too similar to Anchorite (since it can be equivalently described as W‐then‐Ski‐Bishop, perhaps it's a ‘Ski‐anchorite’?).

Cazaux's suggested Dragon and Basilisk are, as HGM found, Betza's Reaper and Harvester (mentioned also in M&B13) — their compund the Combine probably also qualifies as ‘more than crazy’ :D

Piece 3 is, for Gilman, a Fimibrated Gryphon, while piece 4 (if not a typo for “(W-then-B) + (D-then-B)”, which would be a fimibrated anchorite) is M&B13's Ancress, except that the rook component is Ski‐; the ancress' counterpart, gryphon+bishop, is a Metropolitan.

Fwiw, M&B09 suggests Contra‐ versions as well, which make the sliding move before the leap

Not sure if any besides the Tripunch set have been used though…

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, Nov 12, 2020 07:51 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Thanks a lot

H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Nov 12, 2020 08:56 AM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from Wed Nov 11 05:13 PM:

I am pretty sure I have seen a variant here that used such 'triple-barrel' sliders. I think it was by Betza.

I found it! The variant was called Tripunch Chess. Betza calls Piece 1 (Gryphon + Rook) a Reaper, and Piece 2 (W-then-B + B) a Harvester.

H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Nov 11, 2020 09:53 PM UTC:

I am pretty sure I have seen a variant here that used such 'triple-barrel' sliders. I think it was by Betza.

In the 'more-than-crazy' limit, such pieces become 'hook movers'. These are known from the large Shogi variants in the flavors that turn a 90-degree corner. (Orthogonal: Hook Mover; diagonal: Capricorn & Long-Nosed Goblin. The latter has an additional Wazir move to break the color-binding.) But this is not qualitatively different from turning a 45-degree corner in an arbitrary point along the trajectory. Like the Hook Mover the 45-degree benders cover the entire (empty) board, but they can only reach each square through a single path. While the Hook mover had two paths to most squares. OTOH, the path to a given square is shorter than the paths of the Hook Mover. So I would not know which piece is stronger. The compound of B-then-R and R-then-B (plus R plus B) would definitely be stronger than the Hook Mover.

KelvinFox wrote on Wed, Nov 11, 2020 09:29 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 05:13 PM:Excellent ★★★★★

Another piece I wonder if it ever was used is Nao

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, Nov 11, 2020 05:13 PM UTC:

I was thinking of some very mighty pieces, probably playable only on very large board, 12x12 or more.

Those pieces could threaten wide bands of lines

Piece 1: compound of Gryphon/Eagle + Rook (I once suggested to Zied to call it a Dragon)

Piece 2: compound of (W-then-B) + Bishop (I once suggested to Zied to call it a Basilisk)

Piece 3: compound of Gryphon + (A-then-R)

Piece 4: compound of (W-then-B) + (D-then-R)

Why stopping there, one can have also compound of P1+P3 and of P2+P4, threatening even wider bands, probably more than crazy.

I was wondering if anyone had used them in CVs?

Aurelian Florea wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 02:54 PM UTC:

I was thinking a few days ago about pieces that HG would call R2 then bishop and B2 then rook, meaning a further weakening of the gryphon and aanca. They come natural to me but I'd like to hear other people thoughts.

Greg Strong wrote on Fri, Apr 24, 2020 12:15 AM UTC:

I have made significant edits to this page to fix the inaccuracies while preserving all Betza was trying to say (including extraneous stuff.)  The edits, along with justificaiton and any extra information I had available, have all be documented in footnotes.

I spent more time on this than I had expected, given that I don't really like this page anyway.  A new page on bent riders befitting a piececlopedia would be beneficial, but in the meantime, this page should hopefully at least be accurate (the board game preferences of space aliens notwithstanding.)

Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 06:00 PM UTC:

Yes Fergus, this is the kind of analysis that we've done. But of course not only 1 passage must be checked, any "theory" has to be tested with other passages of the text. Basically, this is what Sonja has done in her PhD.

To go further on this particular passage, the authors used the verb "to do" instead of "to go". Let's do more litteral:

"corre mucho desque comienca & faze ante en salto en trauiesso como Cauallo."

>> runs a lot when it begins & does before a jump in oblique as a Horse

"& assi lo establecieron en este acedrex que anda el primer salto como Cauallo"

>> & so they established in this chess that walks (anda) the first jump as a Horse

& depues en sosquino como la Cocatriz fata do quisiere; o que tome.

>> & then in corner as the Cocatrice (mythical animal probably inspired by the crocodile. Consider that no crocodile was frequently seen in Castile in those days) does as it wants; or take.

(the punctation ; is given in the numeric Spanish text)

"E daquella casa o salta non puede tornar a tras si non yr siempre adelante."

>> And from that square where it jumps cannot turn back but goes (yr) always forward

Again, there are several points where Murray went wrong with this text. Murray was quite good at many languages, not sure he was with Spanish. Another possibility, I believe it, was the poor consideration that Murray had for those large chess variants. I can elaborate on this if you want.

All my best,

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 03:28 PM UTC:

I don't know Spanish, but based on the English translation, I can see where Murray would get the idea that the Unicorn's Knight move is non-capturing. This part of the description makes a distinction between go and take: "then goes in corner like the Crocodile does when it wants to go or take." This suggests that "go" is intended for non-capturing moves, and "take" is reserved for capturing moves. In the first part of the sentence, he just uses "go" in reference to the Knight part of the move: "It goes the first jump like a Horse." To be consistent with the use of "go" in the later part of the sentence, that part could be understood as non-capturing. However, the sentence seems to use "go" inconsistently in the middle. When it says "goes in corner," this is followed by "like the Crocodile does when it wants to go or take." If we consistently used the word "go" to mean a non-capturing move, then the piece could not capture at all. But that seems unlikely. Whichever interpretation we go with though, "go" is still being used in two different senses in this sentence. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the translation or with the original text. Would a more literal translation avoid this equivocation?

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