Comments by CarlosCetina

What do you mean with "a randomized seed"? Do you mean to place at random all the pieces on 2nd and 9th ranks?

I'm afraid I will not be able to help you much because I'm a neophyte in programming matters. I learned a bit about randomization by analizing the Fischer Random Chess preset and some other presets edited by José Carrillo.

I have only edited 5 presets with rules enforced:

1) Sac Chess

2) Euchess

3) Cardinal Chess

4) Chess 9x9

5) Glinski's Hexagonal Chess (Symmetric)

All of them simply by copying and pasting the code from some other presets edited by Fergus.

Anyway, I will try to help as much as I can. My recommendation is to analize carefully both Grand Chess and Omega Chess presets.

I have no idea how to generate said randomized seed neither how to solve such difficulties. The good news is that while you find the corresponding answers you can edit a preset without rules enforced and begin to playtest it against humans not against machines. By my part, I'm ready for it when you like.

OK, thanks. In both games I will give you White side.

Aurelian:

I have re-edited your presets by using several piece icons that are more intuitive/descriptive, which is very useful to recognize at a glance how they move.

Their links: Apothecary Chess 1 -- Apothecary Chess 2

I would prefer that we play using them, if you do not mind. This would have the advantage that you could continue working on your original presets without affecting games in progress. Maybe Greg could agree with me that the icons I propose to use have an obvious advantage over the ones you're using.

So, what do you say? Meanwhile I'm sending you a couple of invitations.

OK, thanks. I had not thought of that. I'm going to check it out. Either way we can play 4 games at a time!

Aurelian:

Don't worry about to merge databases because Game Courier already is doing it since it records games based on its primary names; our presets differ only in its settings names, so there is no problem.

There is no way to customize your presets [using the Customize button] in such a manner that the result be the presets proposed by me, but this is not a big problem: when you post your presets, you could create at the corresponding user submission page a link towards "my" presets, leaving the players the choice of which one to use. 

The icons that are most difficult for me to visualize how theirs respective pieces should be moved are the Champion and the Wizard, but I have found another solution: I will make a clone of each of the two games that are in progress in which we are using your presets, in such a way that I will do my analysis on the clones [which will use "my" presets] and, once I have decided what move I am going to do, I will replicate it in the matrix game. That's all... simple like "good morning!"

Thank you for attending my suggestions.

Very good, Greg, thanks. What is the URL of said piece sets?

OK, ready, I have just edited 2 new presets using the symbolic piece set.

These are theirs links:

Apothecary Chess 1

Apothecary Chess 2

The old ones using the "alfaeri many" set are these:

Apothecary Chess 1

Apothecary Chess 2

Thanks again, Greg. By the way, would you like to play a game of AC1 with me?

OK... Great!

It is very rare that anyone here at GC wants to play in private mode. All games in progress are public and you can access any of them from the main page: Game Courier Games Logs.

What happens if players forget to drop the Joker within the established period? Is there any kind of penalty?

I agree with Fergus.

Given that we all have certain favorite games, I think the easiest way to reconcile everyone's interests is to adopt a Potluck Single Round Robin format, in which each player choose and brings a unique game. Let's see with an example how it would work. Right now we are 5 participants: Fergus, Greg, Nick, Aurelian and Carlos. Let's suppose that the choice of each one is thus:

Fergus(F): Eurasian Chess(EC)

Greg(G): Opulent Chess(OC)

Nick(N): Mimic Chess(MC)

Aurelian(A): Apothecary Chess 1(AC1)

Carlos(C): Symmetric Chess(SC)

Then

F [driving Black side] would play EC vs G, N, A, C 

G [driving Black side] would play OC vs F, N, A, C

N [driving Black side] would play MC vs F, G, A, C

A [driving Black side] would play AC1 vs F, G, N, C

C [driving Black side] would play SC vs F, G, N, A

If the total number of participants were greater than or equal to 10, then we could form 2 groups, and the winners of each group would face a final second stage.

What do you all think of this idea?
 

Deep down I do not disagree with you, Fergus, what happened is that my mind stayed fixed only in the part where you said "...tournament results are more meaningful when participants play the same games as each other", but for nothing I am against a process of selection of variants to play; I only suggested a possibility.

Now Greg has the floor. What's next?

It's good news that with Jarid we are 6 now!

OK, these are the mine:

1. FRC, Berolina, Switching, Extintion,, Marseillais

2. Xianqgqi, Jangii, Makruk, Shogi

3. Capablanca, Janus, Victorian, Embassy, Grotesque

4. Unicorn Great Chess, Opulent, Grand, Omega, Eurasian

5. Cylindrical, Circular, McCooey, Glinski

6. Shatranj, Courier, Los Alamos, Grande Acedrex, Chu Shogi

7. Pocket Mutation, Alice, CwdA, Wildebeest, Ultima

Sorry, I forgot to include Diamond in the 5th category.

5. Cylindrical, Circular, McCooey, Glinski, Diamond

[A bug in the text editor prevented me from editing my previous comment.]

You are welcome, Greg, and thanks to you too for staying firm in leading of this enterprise.

I would like to clarify that the fact that I agree with Fergus's idea of carrying out a pre-selection of variants does not necessarily imply that I am against your proposal, because this last is already a selection; I consider that the choice you have made is quite general and serves well to the goal of consolidating a tournament format that in the future will become the main here in Game Courier. For me the important thing is that your initiative goes ahead and I fervently hope that the 8 people who have expressed their interest in participating remain united and bring the event to a successful conclusion.

The problem that prevents editing any previous comment is in the process of registering to the website, since [being fully registered] this message appears on the screen when you click on the edit button: "You must sign in before you can edit this comment. Please go back and try again."
 

OK, thanks!

Thanks! I have just made my moves.

All right, I understand and recognize the effort and dedication you are putting to gradually improve this wonderful website. Thousand thanks for that!

No, not yet. I think Fergus did not notice my report.

It's right. Thanks!

Checking my inbox mail I see that the last email received from this website was last December 26.

Please do not accept my invitations for playing Symmetric Chess.

First of all, you should stop accepting open invitations until you have learned the proper functioning of making moves in Game Courier.

By other part, what happens in your Opulent Chess game versus Greg? Why do not you make there the second move, if you could already do the first?

Why did you take the black side in the invitation I made you to play standard chess, if I asked you to take the white side?

Did you already send Fergus the screencast of what you are doing to his yahoo email he requested?

I will send you another invitation for playing Chess and again please choose white side and try to make your first move.

OK, then let's wait for his answer. Why did not you send it to his yahoo account?

You do not need to have an account there to send an email to someone who does have an account.

I'm waiting for you to accept the invitation for playing Chess that sent you almost two hours ago and make your first move.

There's really little I can do to help you, so let's wait for Fergus' response.

There is no doubt that this case is totally atypical and very difficult to solve!

Why do not you try to create another account here in Game Courier with a different username and email? You could also create an email account in Yahoo.

OK. No problem. Thanks.

Fergus:

To help you spot the bug that is in our Colossus game here is part of the program:

Syntax Error on line 673

 658 MOVE: r i3-j3
 659 postauto2
 660 moveindex 146
 661 MOVE: B h1-j3
 662 postauto1
 663 moveindex 147
 664 MOVE: q g3-j3
 665 postauto2
 666 set posvar join "b" join fencode boardflags
 667 if >= var #posvar 3
 668   say Three Times Repetition! Drawn Game!
 669   drawn
 670 elseif sub stalemated #K
 671   if sub checked #K
 672     say Checkmate! Black has won!
 673     won:
else:
say Stalemate! The game is drawn.
 674     drawn
 675   endif
 676 elseif >= #nopvc 100
 677   say Fifty Moves Without Moving a Pawn or Capturing! Game Drawn!
 678   drawn
 679 elseif sub checked #K
 680   say Check!
 681 endif
 682 end

I understand the problem is the two points after the "won" word.

OK... Thanks!

Thanks. Good luck to everyone!

OK. Thanks!

Okay, Greg, sorry for the misunderstanding. Thousand thanks and good luck!

Thanks for your reply, HG.

What I'm looking for is an engine or computer program that allows me to analyze Symmetric Chess games with the idea of publishing them on YouTube, for which it would be very useful to have teaching resources such as those before mentioned: arrows, highlighting squares, etc.  

I think I could use the Interactive Diagram but I feel a bit unpleasant the fact that on the starting setup appear Dragon Horses instead of Bishops. Would it be possible to implement the Bishops Convertion Rule without the intermediation of neither Dragon Horses nor Wazirs? 

Greg:

The same day you pre-released ChessV 2.2 I downloaded it but it does not work.

Recently I upgraded the OS from Windows 7 to 10. Save by the button sizes issue I still can run ChessV 2.1

I have archived the ChessV 2.2's 10 elements: 3 folders, 5 extensions and 2 apps, but Windows 10 may require programs to include an installer.

By contrast, some days ago I downloaded H.G. Muller's WinBoard 4.8.0 and I can run it perfectly; its logo appears listed in the Start Menu while the one of ChessV 2,2  doesn't, but the ChessV 2.1 logo yes appears listed.

I will look forward to the official release with installer included!

HG:

I will try to configure the Interactive Diagram as you say using the Bishop image for both Dragon Horse and Wazir.

Regarding WinBoard 4.8.0, I don't know how to drop the Hawk and the Elephant playing Seirawan Chess against the Fairy-Chess engine.  After moving a piece, no menu appears asking you to choose which piece you want to drop. Could you, please, help me? 

Greg:

When I double click on ChessV.exe it appears a window asking me if I agree the app makes changes in the device. After clicking "yes" NOTHING HAPPENS. It's disconcerting why does WinBoard 4.8.0 works while ChessV2.2 doesn't.

HG:

I already learned to drop pieces in Seirawan Chess. Thanks!

Do you know what version of Windows 10 you are using? 

I'm using Windows 10 Home, 1903 version, operative system version 18362.476, installed on 14/Oct/2019.

My PC is a Compaq Mini CQ-1100, Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2600, 1.60 GHz RAM.

Go in to the EnginesXBoard folder and delete everything underneath and then try running ChessV.exe again?

I already did it but the problem persists: no error message is issued nor the system crashes, it simply behaves as if nothing had happened.

In order to determine the cause there are 2 steps:

1) To install ChessV2.2 in other computer with Windows 10 Home .

2) To install in my PC another app.exe

For the second, I would be grateful if you, Fergus, HG or anyone else tell me of any program (preferable of chess or chessvariants) that I could download.

There is Fairy-Stockfish, which is very much worth having. But it is not an independent app that goes accompanied with an installer. Just something you unzip in a folder of your choice, after which you have to point WinBoard to the executable through the Load Engine dialog, so that it can use it as an engine.

The same holds for Nebiyu, which is not as strong as Stockfish, but rather easy to configure for playing new chess variants.

Thank you very much for the info. Of the two, attracts me more Nebiyu. I'm somewhat confused on how to proceed with the installation because I don't see any link that be unique and clearly says "download". There are these 4 links:

egbbdll-cpu

egbbdll-gpu

nets-epd.zip

nets-ccrl.zip

Could you, please, tell me which of them to click? 

OK, I already downloaded Nebiyu 1.45 and unzipped NebiyuAlien; then double clicked on NebiyuAlien.exe and a window was opened but everything is black; there is only one blinking cursor; the window header says:

C:\Users\Carlos\Downloads\Nebiyu\NebiyuAlien.exe

But now I don't know what to do.

Thank you, H.G., for the explanation and directions. I could already run Nebiyu properly but unfortunately... playing chess it defeats me easily! 

Hi Greg:

Bad news. I followed your instructions completely but cannot run the app. Now the emerged window had a black background, no text and there was only a blinking cursor; the window header said:

C:\users\Carlos\downloads\ChessV2.2RC1\ChessV2.2RC1\ChessV.Engine.exe

Out of curiosity, I tried to do the same thing I did with Nebiyu, that is, to run it with WinBoard but the action was stopped.

It seems that I have no choice but to wait for the new ChessV version.

Thank you very much for all!

Okay, following your instructions, I was finally able to run the program. It's wonderful! 106 chess variants available!

Congratulations Greg. You have done an excellent job.

Thanks again for all your support!

You are welcome, Greg. Let's follow playtesting your masterpiece! Have you thought about developing a ChessV app for mobile devices, tablets and phones?

Those who are participating in the current tournament and are playing Symmetric Chess for the first time maybe might be interested in seeing how ChessV manages the matter.

Thanks, Greg, for answering. Hopefully soon some mobile apps developer could join and help in your ChessV undertaking.

I'm sorry to tell you that I have found these bugs:

1. In Ministers Chess setup the i-rook and the h-knight from White side are switched.

2. In Sac Chess both kings cannot castle.

3. When rotating the boards the numerical coordinates remain unchanged.

4. In Gross Chess the window size does not fit proportionally to the PC screen.

Aside of that, I'm enjoying immensely your masterpiece!

I have already downloaded the new version. Thanks again for your excellent work. I think the released date mentioned on your website has the wrong year.

Watch ChessV acting in all its glory!

Sissa is a compound of rook and bishop but its move is not disjunctive, it is conjunctive.

Conjunctive = A and B

Disjunctive = A or B

Am I right?

Thanks Greg. I would suggest that players could choose customize the piece set between abstract and alfaerie.

The one who edited the preset in use was me with some guidance from Fergus.

I have never seen the word 'compound' used in sequential meaning; I would say the Sissa is an (isosceles) hook mover. And I would not say the Tai Shogi Hook Mover is a (conjunctive) compound of two Rooks. The word 'or' usually implies 'and', and if you consider this operations on the move sets, the 'conjunctive compound' of R and B would have no moves (as B and R have no moves in common), and the conjunctive compound of K and R would be the Wazir, etc. There doesn't seem a case where this cumbersome way of describing more elementary move sets is useful, as they tend to all have simple names of their own. Note that the Sissa can neither move as a Rook, nor as a Bishop.

It seems to me the addition of 'disjunctive' serves no other purpose here then sow confusion in a case that otherwise would be correctly understood with 100% certainty.

Thank you very much, HG, for the clarification. Soon I will make the correction in what corresponds to the Sac Chess preset. It will take more time to do it in other texts because they are many.

What is paradoxical and anecdotal about this case is that I believed that making that distinction introduced clarity!

In passing, it should be borne in mind that 90% of what I write in English is "formatted"  [written, thought, said] by the Google translator.

@Greg,

 Thank you very much!

@Kevin,

The new preset page is already updated. Please let me know if you want us to write any particular text there. You don't have to worry about past game logs being affected because I have used another settings name.

@Greg,

The key at the bottom that describes the pieces shows Alfaerie images.

 

So is. I already corrected it. I even put links to the three presets separately so that the player who is going to launch an invitation can choose the one he/she likes.

How should the underlined parts be read (interpreted)?

def Aanca fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
where #0 0 sign - rank #1 rank #0 
#1 
or fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
where #0 sign - file #1 file #0 0 
#1
or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;

Particularly, what do the underlined  0 's mean?

def Aanca fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
where #0 0 sign - rank #1 rank #0 
#1 
or fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
where #0 sign - file #1 file #0 0 
#1
or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;

Thanks. I think we are close to finding the solution!

Then the question is how do we get the where operator returns the 4 options:

where #0 2 0

where #0 -2 0

where #0 0 2 

where #0 0 -2

Is there any other digit to use instead of 0 that fulfills the desired purpose? I mean the zero that I previously underlined.

What is easy to deduce is that the first backward line of code should look like this:

or checkleap #0 #1 2 0;

Is my assumption about the Osprey-Range definition correct?

def Osprey-Range mergeall 
leaps #0 2 0 
rays where #0 0 2 1 1 
rays where #0 0 -2 1 1 
rays where #0 2 0 1 1 
rays where #0 -2 0 1 1;

With the following code I have made some progress because the piece already can make the desired legal moves:

def Osprey fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
  where #0 0 * 2 sign - rank #1 rank #0 
  #1 
  or fn (checkride #0 #1 1 1 and empty #0) 
  where #0 * 2 sign - file #1 file #0 0 
  #1
or checkleap #0 #1 2 0;
 

def Osprey-Range mergeall 
  leaps #0 2 0 
  rays where #0 0 2 1 1 
  rays where #0 0 -2 1 1 
  rays where #0 2 0 1 1 
  rays where #0 -2 0 1 1;

However something must be wrong since the program allows the Osprey to be moved as ferz. What do you think is the cause?

Yes, but then how to explain that the program allows moving the piece like Ferz?

Interesting deduction, Ben. Let's see what Fergus thinks.

Set. Problem solved. Thank you very much for your help, Fergus.

Thank you very much!

Okay, no rush. While fixing the issue, I'm using this other setup which is very useful to study the tactical possibilities that Sissa offers within the context of standard chess when replacing Queen for Sissa.

OK, thanks!