Comments by CarlosCetina
Not entirely because on each turn the names of the players change alternately between White and Black.
Great! We can now easily review again the large number of games of the GC database.
Again all the logs can not be reviewed since the position skips directly from the starting setup to the last move made.
OK. It's now working correctly. There is another problem that happens only with randomized variants when one wants to print any entire game; only the final position is showed; it's impossible to review the game because one does not know what was the starting setup. Would there be any way to include both diagrams at once?
The point is that in random variants is important to know the starting setup if you want to review a game OTB reading the moves directly from a paper sheet; in variants whose starting setup is always the same it is not so important that this position be recorded.
Ideally it would be nice that when you click PRINT both positions be recorded: the starting and the current. It's understood that normally you will print finished games.
By the way, there is a lot of Fischer Random Chess logs broken with messages such as "ILLEGAL: N c1-b3 on turn 3: There was no N on c1. The piece on c1 is a K. Go back and try again." [j_carrillo_vii-fergus-2004-138-495]
OK, with that is sufficient. Regarding the broken Fischer Random Chess logs, they are 78; only 19 are OK. If they can not be recovered, maybe they should be deleted. Hard decision.
Sounds good the idea; if it works, perhaps I could use it for recovering the broken logs of my random variants which are in total 26. By the way, I have in mind to invite Garry Kasparov to join this community of CVs fans for playing a game with me of either Symmetric Chess or Cetran Chess 2; then it would be useful, convenient, the presets of these variants to have enforced theirs rules. Could you, please, help me to do it? The key things that I don't know is how to code the Bishops Conversion Rule and the Sissa movement rule. I am very excited since if he accepts, it would be a historic event: the first former World Champion Chess that would play here at The Hall of the Chess Variants!
Thanks Joseph, I have just done the correction.
TOURNAMENT
Cameron Miles Gary Gifford Jeremy Good Joe Joyce Sagi Gabay Carlos Cetina | double round robin 150 days spare time every games starting from a same asymmetric setup | 1stcetran2tourney |
SETUP
GAMES
Cameron Miles | Jeremy Good | Carlos Cetina | Gary Gifford | Joe Joyce | Sagi Gabay | Score | ||
1 | Cameron Miles | |||||||
2 | Jeremy Good | |||||||
3 | Carlos Cetina | |||||||
4 | Gary Gifford | |||||||
5 | Joe Joyce | |||||||
6 | Sagi Gabay |
We can get a first approach to the relative strength of these nightriders by placing them on the central square (g7) of a 13x13 board and counting the number of squares affected/checked from there.
Doing it, we would find these results:
NN11 | Diagonal Wide Crooked Nightrider | 56 |
NN02 | Straight Wide Crooked Nightrider | 36 |
NN31 | Quintessence | 36 |
NN00 | Rose | 32 |
NN33 | Diagonal Narrow Crooked Nightrider | 24 |
NN21 | Standard Nightrider | 24 |
NN04 | Straight Narrow Crooked Nightrider | 20 |
Hence, the following equivalences should be near to be true:
NN11 = NN00 + NN33 = NN00 + NN21 = NN31 + NN04 = NN02 + NN04
Yes, of course, post the prototypes here, Jeremy. Not only the description about cannon pawns talks about edge squares but all Rococo's ones. In the rules section I wrote: "Rococo's pieces [chameleon, long leaper, swapper, withdrawer, advancer, immobilizer and cannon pawns] are subject of the pertinent adecuation to an 8x8 board, that is, it will be supposed that the game is played on a 6x6 board and, in consequence, the board's edge would be formed by "a" and "h" columns, and 1st and 8th rows." I have always seen the disjunctive whether to apply Rococo's "edge conditions" or not here in this variant as a minor issue that players could resolve by mutual agreement before a game. In contrast, find two people interested in playing Universal Chess is certainly a huge, giant, colossal problem! I appreciate very much your contribution of designing piece icons. To keep adding more pieces to this variant, the main task to be done is standardize the various piece sets into one: the Alfaerie-many.
The Jeremy's last question, "In the current position of the game I cite, can the cannon pawns on e2 and a2 be seen as spotting the piece on c4?", has not been explicitly answered.
The current position cited is this:
The rule should reflect the real situation of an archer trying to hit the target when the victim is located at longer distances and needs help for focusing the shot, hence the role of the spotter.
The following diagram shows how I understand the matter.
Red circles indicate all the possible short range captures.
White circles indicate the possible positions from which the spotter would fulfill its role.
Green circles indicate positions from which any white piece [archer's friendly] would not fulfill the spotting role.
But this is only a personal interpretation and I'm, of course, willing to abide Michael's statement.
Which option you think would be the best? I am willing to play according to your taste.
Originally envisioned drops after moves and also lean for this option, so let's follow playing that way.
The Colorbound Conversion Rule seems to me nice, so let's apply it immediately at our bold adventure of exploring this utopian (crazy?) variant. Thanks for the idea!
1) Drop Chancellor on e1/e8
2) Drop Chancellor on h1/h8
3) Drop Archbishop on e1/e8
4) Drop Archbishop on h1/h8
5) Drop Chancellor on e1/e8 and Archbishop on h1/h8
6) Drop Archbishop on e1/e8 and Chancellor on h1/h8
7) Not to drop neither
So, Mats, I suggest you to introduce the two extra choices in the preset codification.
Congratulations, Cameron, on having won the tournament. If Jeremy is willing to continue playing, I could edit the special preset. He also could edit it and send to you the respective invite.
In case you and Cameron want to continue the out-timed game, here is the special preset.
I will email you to define details on next tournaments.
Given that we have not heard anything from Joe, I express my deepest desire that he be in good health.
By the way, I have noticed that kibbitz comments are not displayed in logs when you review games by using mobile devices; see for instance this: shatteredglass-judgmentality-2014-237-084
It would be good that this was remedied.
OFFICIAL FINAL STANDINGS
rank | ||
Cameron Miles | 9.5/10 | |
Jeremy Good | 8/10 | |
Carlos Cetina | 6.5/10 | |
Gary Gifford | 4/10 | |
Joe Joyce | 2/10 | |
Sagi Gabay | 0/10 |
Once again...
Thanks Jeremy. I have just read it and will move at our games soon.
Excellent... Thanks! By other part, I'm reporting another problem: the menu to choose which side will play one is not working in Personal Invitations. When you accept it, the software assigns to you automatically second player. I'm sending you an invite for Cylindrical Chess so that you can corroborate the issue.
Yes, both pieces have said restriction in such a manner that they follow the same movement pattern like in a standard board formed by squares.
Hope the following diagrams help to clarify the matter:
Surely there is a bug in the Game Courier Game Logs webpage, but you can follow playing by clicking the links of each game from the Game Courier's email alerts.
Could it fit, satisfy the lovers of strategic maneuvering taste?
I'm naming it Hexajedrez.
You are welcome, Kevin. A little contribution of mine to your idea. I like it. Introducing into the classical chess gameplay the 6 primary, basic compound pieces. Unfortunately, there is a bug in the preset: if you click in the menu Related --> Rules for Sac Chess, it appears this message: "The Chess Variant Pages: 404 Error - Page not found." Hopefully Fergus or Ben can fix it. I encourage you to playtest Sac Chess with me as soon as posssible... I'm anxious to see how its game plot would evolve!
elseif match moved Q R B N A M O .RF .BW .NGU:
elseif match moved q r b n a m o .rf .bw .ngu:
the problem remains.
Do you think the following definitions are right?
def O checkride #0 #1 1 0 or checkride #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 2;
def .RF checkride #0 #1 1 0 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def .BW checkride #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def .NGU checkleap #0 #1 1 2 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def OL merge rays #0 1 0 rays #0 1 1 leaps #0 1 2;
def .RFL merge rays #0 1 0 leaps #0 1 1;
def .BWL merge rays #0 1 1 leaps #0 1 0;
def .NGUL merge leaps #0 1 2 leaps #0 1 0 leaps #0 1 1;
def o checkride #0 #1 1 0 or checkride #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 2;
def .rf checkride #0 #1 1 0 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def .bw checkride #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def .ngu checkleap #0 #1 1 2 or checkleap #0 #1 1 1 or checkleap #0 #1 1 0;
def oL merge rays #0 1 0 rays #0 1 1 leaps #0 1 2;
def .rfL merge rays #0 1 0 leaps #0 1 1;
def .bwL merge rays #0 1 1 leaps #0 1 0;
def .nguL merge leaps #0 1 2 leaps #0 1 0 leaps #0 1 1;
O is amazon
.RF is dragon horse = rook or ferz
.BW is dragon king = bishop or wazir
.NGU is knight or guard
Testing the preset by the "MOVE pieces by yourself" resource, looks like the code doesnot recognize such pieces as own for any determined army.
Sorry, .RF is dragon king and .BW is dragon horse (from shogi).
All the presets have a bug that when you click "Invite" then switch to the chess preset.
Exactly. Thanks for answering, Fergus. It is not easy for me to express myself in English. I only add that our games are UNTIMED. Kevin: I'm sending you a couple of invitations... Enjoy!
Sorry for your troubles. The website is working fine and it has not had any downtime. Hope they will be resolved soon.
Yes, the only difference is that there are two queens per side instead of one. I have already fixed the bug on the link to the ruleset page.
[Play Tester played the role of the program.]
You are welcome. OK, don't worry, I understand. Hopefully such developers appear, arise, come up!
Fergus:
I can not make any move in our game [sissa-cvgameroom-2016-141-638]; it appears a message saying "Syntax Error on line 353...".
By other part, all the logs of McCooey's Hexagonal Chess finished games are broken.
Reporting a bug.
Whatever the game, after accepting an invitation either open or personal White is prevented to perform his/her first move; it appears a message saying:
"lastmovenum = ; movenum = 0
WARNING: As a safety precaution, you cannot move and take back a move at the same time.
If you mean to take back a move, do that before you move. This will let you see the board accurately when you do move.
If you did not mean to take back a move, set the drop-down box with the history of your moves to the last move made."
Yes, I see that. However I still cannot make my first move at this log: sissa-playtester-2016-202-616
In the page where you should enter your move it appears the strange symbol ":-1" just below the movelist box. When I click "Preview", then it appears such a message.
Have a look to this nice website: www.jsvsissa.nl
The answer is NOT because it is a slider whose move is composed by two stages: first like bishop followed like rook; or viceversa, first like rook followed like bishop; and those pieces are reached by two different paths.
For the sake of clarifying the matter I'm updating the diagram replacing the Rook by a Bishop because otherwise the Sissa would be pinned and then obviously it could not be moved except for capturing the Rook.
From c3, Sissa can reach the squares marked with green circlets by moving nightrider-wise; squares marked with red circlets are reached by moving rook-wise.
The i6 square is reached by c3-f3-i6. The c3-f6-i6 path is obstructed by the Blue's King. Likewise, f9 is reached via c3-f6-f9, not by c3-c6-f9 that is obstructed by the Bishop.
c8 is reached via c3-h3-c8, not via c3-h8-c8 that is obstructed by the g8-Pawn; c1 is reached via c3-a1-c1 or via c3-a3-c1 but not by c3-e3-c1 nor c3-e1-c1 that are both obstructed by the d2-Pawn.
a2, a4, b5, d5 and e4 can be reached by moving either like Mao or like Moa; b1 only like Moa; d1 is inaccessible due to the obstruction of White's King and d2-Pawn.
Concluding, the Bishop can be captured by 4 paths: c3-e3-c5 or c3-e5-c5 or c3-a3-c5 or c3-a5-c5. The Queen can only be captured by c3-e5-e7 since c3-c5-e7 is obstructed by the Bishop.
Hi Aurelian.
To get random mirrored positions for Q, A and M use this code:
drop Q any b2 e2 i2;
drop A any b2 e2 i2;
drop M any b2 e2 i2;
copy b2 b9;
copy e2 e9;
copy i2 i9;
flip b9 e9 i9;
That's all... neat as you want!
Could you please write here a link to the preset you're working on?
What do you mean with "a randomized seed"? Do you mean to place at random all the pieces on 2nd and 9th ranks?
I'm afraid I will not be able to help you much because I'm a neophyte in programming matters. I learned a bit about randomization by analizing the Fischer Random Chess preset and some other presets edited by José Carrillo.
I have only edited 5 presets with rules enforced:
1) Sac Chess
2) Euchess
4) Chess 9x9
5) Glinski's Hexagonal Chess (Symmetric)
All of them simply by copying and pasting the code from some other presets edited by Fergus.
Anyway, I will try to help as much as I can. My recommendation is to analize carefully both Grand Chess and Omega Chess presets.
I have no idea how to generate said randomized seed neither how to solve such difficulties. The good news is that while you find the corresponding answers you can edit a preset without rules enforced and begin to playtest it against humans not against machines. By my part, I'm ready for it when you like.
OK, thanks. In both games I will give you White side.
Aurelian:
I have re-edited your presets by using several piece icons that are more intuitive/descriptive, which is very useful to recognize at a glance how they move.
Apothecary Chess 1
Apothecary Chess 2
Their links: Apothecary Chess 1 -- Apothecary Chess 2
I would prefer that we play using them, if you do not mind. This would have the advantage that you could continue working on your original presets without affecting games in progress. Maybe Greg could agree with me that the icons I propose to use have an obvious advantage over the ones you're using.
So, what do you say? Meanwhile I'm sending you a couple of invitations.
OK, thanks. I had not thought of that. I'm going to check it out. Either way we can play 4 games at a time!
Aurelian:
Don't worry about to merge databases because Game Courier already is doing it since it records games based on its primary names; our presets differ only in its settings names, so there is no problem.
There is no way to customize your presets [using the Customize button] in such a manner that the result be the presets proposed by me, but this is not a big problem: when you post your presets, you could create at the corresponding user submission page a link towards "my" presets, leaving the players the choice of which one to use.
The icons that are most difficult for me to visualize how theirs respective pieces should be moved are the Champion and the Wizard, but I have found another solution: I will make a clone of each of the two games that are in progress in which we are using your presets, in such a way that I will do my analysis on the clones [which will use "my" presets] and, once I have decided what move I am going to do, I will replicate it in the matrix game. That's all... simple like "good morning!"
Thank you for attending my suggestions.
Very good, Greg, thanks. What is the URL of said piece sets?
OK, ready, I have just edited 2 new presets using the symbolic piece set.
These are theirs links:
The old ones using the "alfaeri many" set are these:
Thanks again, Greg. By the way, would you like to play a game of AC1 with me?
It is very rare that anyone here at GC wants to play in private mode. All games in progress are public and you can access any of them from the main page: Game Courier Games Logs.
By the way, one question and one suggestion:What happens if players forget to drop the Joker within the established period? Is there any kind of penalty?
At your presets you should check the "Exclude Pieces not in Setup" box, since [as Greg said] "otherwise, every time the page loads, it loads hundreds of pictures". Don't forget to SAVE the action immediately.I am willing to participate in a tournament regardless of its format, as long as it be possible that the own variant that one proposes does not have to be necessarily with reinforced rules.
It is important and worthwhile for Game Courier to permanently have at least one annual tournament [say "by default"], so I really appreciate the effort and dedication you, Greg, are undertaking.
I agree with Fergus.
Given that we all have certain favorite games, I think the easiest way to reconcile everyone's interests is to adopt a Potluck Single Round Robin format, in which each player choose and brings a unique game. Let's see with an example how it would work. Right now we are 5 participants: Fergus, Greg, Nick, Aurelian and Carlos. Let's suppose that the choice of each one is thus:
Fergus(F): Eurasian Chess(EC)
Greg(G): Opulent Chess(OC)
Nick(N): Mimic Chess(MC)
Aurelian(A): Apothecary Chess 1(AC1)
Carlos(C): Symmetric Chess(SC)
Then
F [driving Black side] would play EC vs G, N, A, C
G [driving Black side] would play OC vs F, N, A, C
N [driving Black side] would play MC vs F, G, A, C
A [driving Black side] would play AC1 vs F, G, N, C
C [driving Black side] would play SC vs F, G, N, A
If the total number of participants were greater than or equal to 10, then we could form 2 groups, and the winners of each group would face a final second stage.
What do you all think of this idea?
Deep down I do not disagree with you, Fergus, what happened is that my mind stayed fixed only in the part where you said "...tournament results are more meaningful when participants play the same games as each other", but for nothing I am against a process of selection of variants to play; I only suggested a possibility.
Now Greg has the floor. What's next?
It's good news that with Jarid we are 6 now!
OK, these are the mine:
1. FRC, Berolina, Switching, Extintion,, Marseillais
2. Xianqgqi, Jangii, Makruk, Shogi
3. Capablanca, Janus, Victorian, Embassy, Grotesque
4. Unicorn Great Chess, Opulent, Grand, Omega, Eurasian
5. Cylindrical, Circular, McCooey, Glinski
6. Shatranj, Courier, Los Alamos, Grande Acedrex, Chu Shogi
7. Pocket Mutation, Alice, CwdA, Wildebeest, Ultima
Sorry, I forgot to include Diamond in the 5th category.
5. Cylindrical, Circular, McCooey, Glinski, Diamond
[A bug in the text editor prevented me from editing my previous comment.]
You are welcome, Greg, and thanks to you too for staying firm in leading of this enterprise.
I would like to clarify that the fact that I agree with Fergus's idea of carrying out a pre-selection of variants does not necessarily imply that I am against your proposal, because this last is already a selection; I consider that the choice you have made is quite general and serves well to the goal of consolidating a tournament format that in the future will become the main here in Game Courier. For me the important thing is that your initiative goes ahead and I fervently hope that the 8 people who have expressed their interest in participating remain united and bring the event to a successful conclusion.
The problem that prevents editing any previous comment is in the process of registering to the website, since [being fully registered] this message appears on the screen when you click on the edit button: "You must sign in before you can edit this comment. Please go back and try again."
Greg: Could you please to post here the URL of the preset? It is not available from the "Related" menu and I would like to invite sxg to playtest his invention. Also please check the preset's "Exclude Pieces not in Setup" box. Thanks!
Fergus:
Please take a look at the following two logs that are broken, I can't make any move.
log=sxg-cvgameroom-2017-150-680
log=sissa-sxg-2017-168-829
Thanks in advance.
Remember that Wildebeest preset has no enforced the rules.
Fergus:
I have troubles with the following three logs:
/play/pbm/play.php?log=sxg-cvgameroom-2017-168-935&game=Chess&sound=true#board
/play/pbm/play.php?log=sissa-cvgameroom-2017-164-189&game=Cetran+Chess+2&sound=true#board
/play/pbm/play.php?log=sissa-cvgameroom-2017-206-203&game=Universal+Chess&sound=true#board
They appear listed on the Game Courier Logs Table indicating that it's my turn to move but REALLY it's my opponent's turn to move. For a strange reason, when I made and send the moves, the action was not completed correctly.
I would appreciate you to take a look at this problem. Thanks in advance.
All right, I understand and recognize the effort and dedication you are putting to gradually improve this wonderful website. Thousand thanks for that!
Yes, of course, use them just changing their Settings Name.
Welcome back and good luck in your aim!
There is a bug that prevents comments made when launching an open invitation to be displayed.
I have just issued this open invitation with this comment: "Asymmetric version". But, as you can check, it does not appear on the page where players must decide whether to accept it or not.
No, not yet. I think Fergus did not notice my report.
Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.
Kevin:
I do not know what would happen if the case referred to is met. If you help me explain the answer, I gladly include it in the rules.
Me neither get email alerts from this website since some time ago (don't remember exactly from when, 3 or 4 weeks). It would be useful to know if there are more people who are experiencing the same thing.
Checking my inbox mail I see that the last email received from this website was last December 26.
I would not doubt that Alpha Zero could be invincible playing this variant, which would be something very good for simple defective mortals like us; it would be great if we could use it to spend some of our free time trying to beat it.
With the advent of mobile devices and thanks to Fergus' masterpiece, Game Courier, it is now possible for two people to play face-to-face a game of this variant, each of them seeing the board in their respective device.
Congratulations Vitya for such an overwhelming victory!
Thanks Greg for organizing the event. I enjoyed it greatly. There will be a 2018 edition?
I believe that the Russian user named Сергей Бугаевский is boycotting the open invitations since he accepts them all indiscriminately choosing to always drive the black side and after the first player makes his move he never responds. I suggest forbidding him access to Game Courier.
Please do not accept my invitations for playing Symmetric Chess.
First of all, you should stop accepting open invitations until you have learned the proper functioning of making moves in Game Courier.
By other part, what happens in your Opulent Chess game versus Greg? Why do not you make there the second move, if you could already do the first?
Why did you take the black side in the invitation I made you to play standard chess, if I asked you to take the white side?
Did you already send Fergus the screencast of what you are doing to his yahoo email he requested?
I will send you another invitation for playing Chess and again please choose white side and try to make your first move.
OK, then let's wait for his answer. Why did not you send it to his yahoo account?
You do not need to have an account there to send an email to someone who does have an account.
I'm waiting for you to accept the invitation for playing Chess that sent you almost two hours ago and make your first move.
There's really little I can do to help you, so let's wait for Fergus' response.
There is no doubt that this case is totally atypical and very difficult to solve!
Why do not you try to create another account here in Game Courier with a different username and email? You could also create an email account in Yahoo.
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