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Yáng Qí. Yankee ingenuity adds new power to Chinese Chess. (9x10, Cells: 90) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Fergus Duniho wrote on 2003-02-05 UTC
Switching the place of an Arrow and a Sage is not a bad idea. Although it was a design goal to mirror the setup of Chinese Chess as much as possible, changing the setup may have some advantages in terms of game play. Because the setup is symmetrical, its 55 possible opening moves are equivalent to 28 opening moves. Likewise, the 44 opening moves in Chinese Chess are equivalent to 23 opening moves, which is not that far off from the 20 available in Chess. By making the setup asymmtrical, as it is in Chess, all 55 possible opening moves would be distinct from each other. I'll put some variant setups in an updated ZRF.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2003-02-06 UTC
When I calculated the number of opening moves in Yang Qi, I omitted the King's two swapping moves. So there are 57 possible opening moves.

Anonymous wrote on 2003-02-06 UTC
<p>If you want to have one Bishop and Arrow on each color, yet keep the setup more or less symmetrical, another option is to play on a board with an even number of columns (for example 8 so that the game is <i>westernized</i> a little more).</p> <p>The white Bishops would start at <b>c1</b> and <b>f1</b> (as in FIDE), then the Arrows at <b>c2</b> and <b>f2</b> (in front of the Bishops, who are the other diagonal pieces, and beside the Cannons, who are the other leaping pieces).</p> <p>Finally, the white King would start at <b>e1</b> and, to fill the empty <b>d1</b>, there could be a <i>Queen</i> or, if you prefer, a <a href='' target='_blank'><b>Leo</b></a> (Cannon + Arrow). Then, of course, symmetrical setup for black.</p> <p>(P.S.: I think I count 61 opening moves for Yang Qi as it is now!)</p>

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2003-02-06 UTC
I think you counted four extra double moves for the forward Pawns. Only the rear Pawns have double moves. There are only 57 possible opening moves.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-03-09 UTCGood ★★★★
Having read the 'older feedback' it strikes me that the most logical name for the game would be Sheng Qi (Sage Game) - so that like both Xiang Qi (Elephant Game) and Shogi (General Game) it is named after the third piece in. For a Xiang Qi variant closer to the original, see my comments on Xiang Qi itself.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2003-03-09 UTC
In Shogi, there are three Generals. There is the Silver General, the Gold General, and the Jeweled General, which we normally call a King. So I think the Shogi name refers to the presence of Generals rather than to one specific General piece. But Sheng Qí is still a suitable name for name for Yáng Qí. I might have thought to use it if I hadn't already named the game before deciding on a Chinese name for the Bishop.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-03-16 UTC
Closer to the original (i.e. to Xiang Xi itself) than is the version suggested here, i.e. more clearly a variant of Xiang Xi rather than of the Western game.

Anonymous wrote on 2003-10-09 UTCPoor ★
it tries to make xiang xi western chess, which it is not. you have taken out the flexibility of xiang xi and systematized the game like in western chess.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-11-02 UTCGood ★★★★
Although Cannons and pieces derived from them are not really my thing,
credit should be given for the idea of combining features of two
well-established games. Indeed as I have now used that idea in a
way in a game of my own
( it
churlish for me not to! Incidentally I note that Yang has now gained a
prominence, as one of the names of China's first astronaut.

David Paulowich wrote on 2004-09-03 UTC
To be precise, your 'QuickPawns' move exactly like the Pawns on the 12x12 board of Perfect Chess, a non-competing entry in the Large Variant 99 Contest. Jean-Louis Cazaux states on his rules page: <p>'It can advance one or two square from ANY position on the board. However, its capturing move is unchanged: one square diagonally forward. As a consequence, the en-passant capture is possible every time the opposite Pawn has advanced two squares. When the Pawn reaches the last row it can promote to one of the three major pieces: Queen, Lion or Gryphon. '

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2004-09-03 UTC
I guess that's true, except that I was unaware of the game mentioned. My
QuickPawns are based on Kevin Begley's Quick-Pawns from Mammoth Chess.
The main difference is that the unhyphenated kind can capture each other
by en passant.

BTW, although the rules for his game have been deleted from, they are still available here: is part of Big Brother's attempt to keep tabs on all of us by
showing the world the things we decided to delete from our webpages.
Actually, they provide details on how to opt out of having your webpages
archived here:

But if you've since gotten rid of a website, there might be nothing you
can do to escape the watching eye of Big Brother.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on 2005-12-10 UTC
This is worse than Xiang-Qi, because the rules of Xiang-Qi that you removed is supposed to be in Xiang-Qi, is make Xiang-Qi good! Still, it is good as a Another game which fixes the problem of weak pieces (by adding another weak piece!) is Para-Xiang-Qi!

Charles Gilman wrote on 2006-07-17 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

Recently, through a crossword, I discovered that there is a musical instrument called a Yangqin, a kind of dulcimer. According to the article at it has used two different characters for Yang, originally one meaning foreign, and later replace by one meaning acclaimed. Oddly enough the name of this variant works just as well with either of these characters. The 'foreign' sense is obvious - a non-Chinese variant adding in the non-Chinese Bishop. The 'acclaimed' sense is, I would argue, demonstrated by all the positive previous comments from connoisseurs of variants.

The rating is because I am now won over to the Cannon family of pieces, and have now used them in a few variants of my own.

Charles Gilman wrote on 2008-10-13 UTC
Seeing your recent photos of a Staunton-style Xiang Qi set reminded me to post a comment regarding equipment. Yang Qi can also be played with just two identical Staunton FIDE sets. Arrows can be represented by Queens and Cannons by inverted Rooks.

Anonymous wrote on 2010-03-11 UTC
Game is not bad... But just as a game, because IT'S NOT XIANG-QI VARIANT!!
It's just CHESS variant, wich uses ONE piece from xiang-qi and variant of
this piece!!
If there would'nt be game with same name, this could be called 'Chess
with cannons'!!

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-03-12 UTC
Game is not bad... But just as a game, because IT'S NOT XIANG-QI VARIANT!! It's just CHESS variant, wich uses ONE piece from xiang-qi and variant of this piece!! If there would'nt be game with same name, this could be called 'Chess with cannons'!!

You may have a narrow conception of what constitutes a Xiang Qi variant, one which I don't share. This game counts as a Xiang Qi variant, because it is based on Xiang Qi, and it can be played with the same equipment. The idea behind this game was not to introduce cannons to Chess but to westernize Chinese Chess.

HP wrote on 2010-05-31 UTC
'This game counts as a Xiang Qi variant, because it is based on Xiang Qi,
and it can be played with the same equipment.' So, you want to say that
games, wich adds R+N and B+N compounds on 10x8 or 10x10 are not FIDE chess
variants, because they cannot be played with FIDE chess equipment? Your
Eurasian chess is perfect, it's idea is to make game, wich have equal from
chess and XQ and chess, and this idea is perfectly fulfilled, but Yang-qi
is supposed to have more from XQ, but it's much closer to western
Also, it cannot be played with XQ equipment, it have more pawns. I can
suggest to use only 5 pawns, and, to make possible protecting pawns with
other pawns possible, give them non-capturing sideways move (initially, NOT
after crossing river). It also will give more XQ feeling. They may be
placed on opening positions of XQ pawns, but, i think, better is to put in
frontof knights pawns, wich are in front of bishops, as here knights are
stronger than cannons, and it's not good if cannons would be able to
capture them on first moves...

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-06-02 UTC

HP wrote:

'This game counts as a Xiang Qi variant, because it is based on Xiang Qi, and it can be played with the same equipment.' So, you want to say that games, wich adds R+N and B+N compounds on 10x8 or 10x10 are not FIDE chess variants, because they cannot be played with FIDE chess equipment?

No, I did not give necessary conditions for being a Xiang Qi variant. I only gave a sufficient condition, which is being based on Xiang Qi and using the same equipment. Being based on Chess and using the same equipment as Chess is a sufficient condition for being a Chess variant, but it is not a necessary condition. So, games which use R+N and B+N with the Chess pieces on a larger board may still count as Chess variants.

But you are correct to point out that Yang Qi cannot be played with the same equipment as Xiang Qi, because it uses extra Pawns. However, all the equipment to play Yang Qi can be found in two Xiang Qi sets, which is close enough. After all, using exactly the same equipment is not a necessary condition for being a Xiang Qi variant.

Anonymous wrote on 2010-06-08 UTC
I can disagree that Yangqi have 57 opening moves. It have 29 opening moves:
this game have perfect simmetry, and each move have another move, wich is
equal to it, expect moving general or center pawn straight forward. But
second player really have 57 opening moves, unless first player moved
general or center pawn straight forward.
Same things can be told about Xiangqi.

Anonymous wrote on 2010-06-09 UTC
I'm sorry, i meant 30, not 29.

Daniil Frolov wrote on 2010-06-29 UTC
Korean variant:
sage moves as zebra. Cannon and arrow must leap, capturing, or not.

Carlos Cetina wrote on 2010-12-30 UTC
Fergus: It seems that there is a bug in the log of your open invitation 'fergus-cvgameroom-2010-351-107'. I could not make the first move as White. And the personal invitation that I have just sent to you also have a bug.

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-12-31 UTC
Try it again. The bug wasn't in the log. It was in the code for writing logs. I have been converting the site to UTF-8, and the code for writing logs was missing the utf8_decode function, which resulted in writing your acceptance of my invitation into a directory with unreadable characters in the name. So, the old log is still there, untouched. I'll go to cpanel and delete the other one, since it is unusable.

Carlos Cetina wrote on 2010-12-31 UTC
OK. From my viewpoint it would be interesting to try Yáng Qí, apart from by using the swap rule, by applying the conversion rule that I conceived some time ago to the particular case of the symmetric array that you name Bigamous Chess. This would require to edit another preset by codifying such a rule for both bishops and vaos. Hope you like this idea. Enjoy!

V. Reinhart wrote on 2017-04-12 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

Merging Chinese chess with Western chess was a very ambitious thing to do (altering two orthodox traditions) but I think you've succeeded! I like how you took the plain round disks and replaced them with chess pieces that are easier to discrimate. Good work on this interesting variant!

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