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Comments by epicurus
I really curious too. In the past I made some internet researches but didn't find anything satisfying. So I hope someone can find some reliable statistics. Anyway, I could find just these two pages (of the same author): http://shogi.typepad.jp/eweblog/2009/06/winning-percent.html https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/shogi-l/GixqTlUmSpI
Alibaba. Jumps two orthogonally or diagonally.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]I thanks to all of you for the intriguing posts. I keep following the discussion.
----H.G. Muller----
Empirical values of symmetric short-range leapers suggest that the the value is mainly determined by the number N of moves they have (when unobstructed), according to the approximate formula value (30+5/8*N)*N. Measurements on asymmetric and divergent pieces suggest that forward moves in this respect contribute roughly twice as much value as sideway or backward moves, and captures contribute roughly twice as much as non-captures.
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I need examples for determining the value of N. The pawn move in 1 square (forward move) and capture in 2 square (forward moves). The ferz move and capture in 4 square (2 forward moves and 2 backward moves) and it is color-bond. How the value of N is calculated for pawn and ferz?
----H.G. Muller----
Empirical values of symmetric short-range leapers suggest that the the value is mainly determined by the number N of moves they have (when unobstructed), according to the approximate formula value (30+5/8*N)*N. Measurements on asymmetric and divergent pieces suggest that forward moves in this respect contribute roughly twice as much value as sideway or backward moves, and captures contribute roughly twice as much as non-captures.
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I need examples for determining the value of N. The pawn move in 1 square (forward move) and capture in 2 square (forward moves). The ferz move and capture in 4 square (2 forward moves and 2 backward moves) and it is color-bond. How the value of N is calculated for pawn and ferz?
Very very interesting topic. I try to put some input: 1. About a minimal modification of FIDE chess for lowering the 1st-move ad. If promotion is so much important factor in causing the 1st-move ad, we can just weaken the promotion, i.e. promoting the pawn to a ferz. 2. What do you think about the 1st-move ad of Balanced Marseillais chess? 3. I think it is quite safe to say that, in general, with the increasing complexity (size of the game tree) of a chess variant we have a decreasing the 1st-move ad, due to the “noise†factor. In that respect I expect the 1st-move ad is much low in Chief than in FIDE chess. 4. I read in Arimaa the 1st-move ad is considered null (even if it is a race game). What do you think about that? Maybe not null but very very small… The reason maybe is because the very high complexity of the game. (Or maybe it relevant the shortrange nature of the pieces too.) 5. About detecting the strength of the 1st-move ad in Chief. You can play Chief with the first player passing the first 5 (or more) turns.
Hi everybody. This is my first significant contribution to the CV.org community but I read a lot of really interesting pages on here. Now I would like to propose my chess variant. ;-)
I wanted to create a cv that satisfy this main goal: the game should have a big strategic depth. (A minor goal was to keep the normal equipment for facilitating the access to the game for the common man.)
I divided this main goal into three subgoals:
1. big game-tree
2. great clarity, that is easy to look ahead or easy to see down the game tree
3. more global winning conditions
To reach the first subgoal my cv has:
a. multi-move turn
b. not fixed setup
c. drop rule
To reach the second subgoal my cv has
d. pieces with easy-to-visualize-movement
e. short range pieces
f. limited squares where to drop the pieces
g. multi-move with each piece can move just one time per turn
To reach the third subgoal my cv has:
h. besides checkmate, a player can win by getting one of the minor pieces to the last row
I have more and more playtests to do, so probably the rules will change. But I would really like to know your feedbacks on how to improve the game especially about the subgoals I wrote.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the grammar errors. :-)
I wanted to create a cv that satisfy this main goal: the game should have a big strategic depth. (A minor goal was to keep the normal equipment for facilitating the access to the game for the common man.)
I divided this main goal into three subgoals:
1. big game-tree
2. great clarity, that is easy to look ahead or easy to see down the game tree
3. more global winning conditions
To reach the first subgoal my cv has:
a. multi-move turn
b. not fixed setup
c. drop rule
To reach the second subgoal my cv has
d. pieces with easy-to-visualize-movement
e. short range pieces
f. limited squares where to drop the pieces
g. multi-move with each piece can move just one time per turn
To reach the third subgoal my cv has:
h. besides checkmate, a player can win by getting one of the minor pieces to the last row
I have more and more playtests to do, so probably the rules will change. But I would really like to know your feedbacks on how to improve the game especially about the subgoals I wrote.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the grammar errors. :-)
All rules of Orthodox Chess (FIDE Chess) apply, but with the following modification.
MINOR PIECES
4 spearmen: move one square straight forward
4 archers: move one square diagonally forward
MAJOR PIECES
2 rooks: move up to three square orthogonally (no castling)
2 bishops: move up to three square diagonally
2 guards: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
1 queen: move up to two square orthogonally or diagonally
1 king: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
SETUP
The game begins with an empty board. White player places in his first two rows all the pieces. The order of the pieces is up to the white player.
When White has finished, the same procedure is followed by the black player.
Shown below is a possible configuration after both players have chosen their starting position.
TURN
A player can make up to three moves per turn. He has to do the maximum number of moves available. If he has no move available, he pass.
One move consists in one of the two following actions:
- dropping a new piece in the board from the reserve;
- moving a pieces on the board that it is not moved or dropped in the present turn.
Just one drop per turn is allowed.
EXCHANGE
When a player captures a Spearman, an Archer or the King this piece is permanently removed from the game, but the other pieces go into the opponent's prison.
At the end of the turn, if a player has in his prison a type of piece already present in the opponent's prison (rook and rook; bishop and bishop; guard and guard; or queen and queen), there is the prisoners' exchange: the white piece in the black prison is moved to the white reserve, the black piece in the white prison is moved to the black reserve.
The prisoners' exchange is mandatory and is not a move.
DROPPING
Dropping consists in a player moving a piece from his reserve to the board, placing the piece in a empty square chosen between the eight squares adjacent to the king.
THE KING
- No check or checkmate.
- The king can move into a square under attack.
- The king can be captured like the other pieces.
- If the king is under attack, the player can move it only with the first move.
OBJECTIVE
The winner is the first player who reach one of the two following objectives:
- capturing the opposite king;
- getting the King or a Spearman or an Archer to the last row (the eighth row for the white player and the first one for the black player).
The three times repetition of the same position (considering the pieces on the board and in the reserve) is a loss.
[Rules updated on January 7, 2013]
MINOR PIECES
4 spearmen: move one square straight forward
4 archers: move one square diagonally forward
MAJOR PIECES
2 rooks: move up to three square orthogonally (no castling)
2 bishops: move up to three square diagonally
2 guards: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
1 queen: move up to two square orthogonally or diagonally
1 king: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
SETUP
The game begins with an empty board. White player places in his first two rows all the pieces. The order of the pieces is up to the white player.
When White has finished, the same procedure is followed by the black player.
Shown below is a possible configuration after both players have chosen their starting position.
TURN
A player can make up to three moves per turn. He has to do the maximum number of moves available. If he has no move available, he pass.
One move consists in one of the two following actions:
- dropping a new piece in the board from the reserve;
- moving a pieces on the board that it is not moved or dropped in the present turn.
Just one drop per turn is allowed.
EXCHANGE
When a player captures a Spearman, an Archer or the King this piece is permanently removed from the game, but the other pieces go into the opponent's prison.
At the end of the turn, if a player has in his prison a type of piece already present in the opponent's prison (rook and rook; bishop and bishop; guard and guard; or queen and queen), there is the prisoners' exchange: the white piece in the black prison is moved to the white reserve, the black piece in the white prison is moved to the black reserve.
The prisoners' exchange is mandatory and is not a move.
DROPPING
Dropping consists in a player moving a piece from his reserve to the board, placing the piece in a empty square chosen between the eight squares adjacent to the king.
THE KING
- No check or checkmate.
- The king can move into a square under attack.
- The king can be captured like the other pieces.
- If the king is under attack, the player can move it only with the first move.
OBJECTIVE
The winner is the first player who reach one of the two following objectives:
- capturing the opposite king;
- getting the King or a Spearman or an Archer to the last row (the eighth row for the white player and the first one for the black player).
The three times repetition of the same position (considering the pieces on the board and in the reserve) is a loss.
[Rules updated on January 7, 2013]
Hi, how good are softwares in playing multi-move CVs? The branching factor is much higher than one-move CVs so I'm curious to know the game-play quality. Moreover, does anyone know the game-tree complexity of the most popular CV, Marseillais Chess?
Alibaba. Jumps two orthogonally or diagonally.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]Thanks John for you exhaustive reply. The problem for having 4 alibabas on different "colors" is you should have 2 alibabas on the first row and 2 on the second row. But the majority of CVs has just pawn on the second row. Anyway I would like to know if there is a general formula to determine the piece's value on 8x8 board with FIDE rules. Or a table with the values of the most common pieces.
How is the value of alibaba compared to other orthodox pieces in a 8x8 board? By intuition I would say 3/4 of a knight.
Marseillais Chess. Move twice per turn. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]9 comments displayed
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