[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Comments/Ratings for a Single Item
It IS a crooked slider and it is a zig zag motion as most people UNFAMILIAR with these pieces will understand it. e.g One step orthogonal (zig) followed by two or more diagonally (zag) .. Apparently you are just interested in semantics.
It seems your use of the word zigzag is at odds with the definition in the dictionary, quoted below. The latter clearly specifies the need for multiple angles in the trajectory, while your pieces have only one: zig⋅zag noun, adjective, adverb, verb, -zagged, -zag⋅ging. –noun 1. a line, course, or progression characterized by sharp turns first to one side and then to the other. 2. one of a series of such turns, as in a line or path. –adjective 3. proceeding or formed in a zigzag: zigzag stitches. –adverb 4. with frequent sharp turns from side to side; in a zigzag manner: The child ran zigzag along the beach. –verb (used with object) 5. to make (something) zigzag, as in form or course; move or maneuver (something) in a zigzag direction: They zigzagged their course to confuse the enemy. –verb (used without object) 6. to proceed in a zigzag line or course.
Again!! I liked it! But, looks to me that is a template, as the snake. A template that can be applied to the various atoms and generals. 1 step in the divergent direction followed by 2 in the main direction, or the reverse, it can be applied to the man, the generals (again), and the Z family. Hugs!
The ZigZag Bishop and Zigzag Rook both fulfil the definition of zigzag. '1. a line, course, or progression characterized by sharp turns first to one side and then to the other.' The ZigZag Bishop can begin with a diagonal move then change to an orthogonal move. Or start with an orthogonal then change to a diagonal. The ZigZag Rook can begin with an orthogonal move then change to a diagonal move. Or start with a diagonal then change to an orthogonal. Even if they only perform two direction shifts, this follows the concept of zig and zag. The word zigzag comes from the French which is often used to describe 'forked' events such as lightning. Which is actually a splitting of the path. Which both of these pieces do. So this argument about semantics is pointless. But I can see how someone who has previously proposed a zigzag piece might feel a bit put upon. But are these piece exact replicas? I do not believe so. Just think of them as a homage and continuation of the concept.
Going from one direction to another is only a single 'turn'. One could even argue if this turn would qualify as 'sharp', (which seems hardly fitting for a 135-degree angle), but that seems nitpicking. Nevertheless, the dictionary definition requires a first and a second turn. The archetypal lightning bolt has at least two sharp turns in it. With only one turn, no one would recognize it as a lightning bolt; people would see it as a letter V or an arrow head. It seems you are pretty much trying to argue that 1 equals 2 here...
I stand upon a point from which I can choose several directions to move. I choose one direction, this is the first or 'zig'. Then having taken that direction, I now choose another or 'zag'. I think you are confusing the zigzag pattern(or repetitive series of zigzag steps) to the simple zigzag step. Check out the second definition of the noun version of this word at this site: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zigzag What about the concept of 'forked'? Which fulfils the French definition of zigzag. Sharp has nothing to do with the degree of the angle but with abrupt shift involved. A non-sharp turn would actually become an arc, though it can be tight it may not be considered 'sharp'. I love etymology. I can talk about it all day. ;-)
The way I read the second definition, 'one such turn', it means 'one of the set'. So there must be a zigzag motion consisting of at least two turns in opposite directions, and only then one can refer to one of those turns as a zigzag in the second sense. That is, IMO, what the 'such' means. It does not only refer to 'sharp' (otherwise meaning 2 could have said 'one shapr turn'), it does refer to the entire first definition.
Okay, let's try a visual representation. A zigzag pattern: /\/\/\/\/\/\ A zigzag step: /\ If you notice that this is a full step of those which make up the pattern. But here's another zigzag pattern: /\ /\/\ /\/\/\ /\/\/\/\ Of which /\ is a full step. Representing a nexus point of divergence. Please try and comprehend that a zigzag is a turn or angle, just as a turn or angle can be a zigzag. Though zigzag has often been used to describe a continuing pattern of zigzagging, that is not its absolute definition. In the South, they refer to a pattern which continued one angle past a simple zigzag step as a 'dog leg'. Interesting how they also incorporated two three-letter words which ended in 'g'. :-)
I don't understand why they can't move to adjacent squares. Is this supposed to make them on par with their non-zigzag counterparts? Also, you got my hopes up of someone using Ralph's Zigzags, which are the same as crooked pieces, but move two steps after each turn instead of one.
Lol, I don't know if the first word in ZigZag Madness is strictly accurate, but the the title as a whole is, based on the comments here! :-D
A little more etymology of zigzag. It originates in the German as zickzack. Which is a compound of zickig and zack. Meaning awkward move. This has been the most fun that I've had in days. Let's pick another word to examine. ;-)
I'd like to see an (incorrectly or loosely) Ironic Chess. Anybody up?
Note that the minimum distance a ZigZag Bishop moves is a Zebra's move away: One orthogonal and TWO diagonally outwards. Think of it as a zig then a zag followed by 1 or more spaces along the diagonal as a bishop. Or it slides 1 or more like a biship first and then zags 1 more in same direction and then zigs. ZigZag Rook's minimum distance is a camel's move away Two orthogonal and one diagonally outwards. So its 1 or more spaces as a Rook followed by a zig in same direction and then a zag. Or a Zag diagonally then a zig and then moves 1 space or more like a rook in same direction. So not only they cannot move to adjacent squares, they cannot move to squares a knight's move away. (This is unlike the duke and cavalier that can move a knight's move away.)
As I said before: Is this supposed to make them on par with their non-zigzag counterparts?
Handicapping them close range does make them less powerful and more on par with the other pieces. However, there were other reasons: as I mentioned their minimum distance a camel or zebra move away, make their movement more unique on this board. THe two new knights already have a Ferz or wazir in addition to knight movement. The Zigzag Bishop/Rook are thus more susceptible to the knights and pawns. The piece values from the Zillions file (which will be up soon): Wazir Knight - 13860 Ferz Knight - 13287 ZigZag Biship - 13914 to 11590 Zigzag Rook - 22078 to 17733 Rook - 17292 Bishop 11613 pawn - 3620 Ninja Pawn - 5915
What terminology is concerned: Your pieces are called bent riders (there is a very good essay on Bent Riders by Ralph Betza on this server). Crooked or zigzag describes the moves of boyscout and girlscout respectively (with many turn instead of exactly one turn). I refrain from throwing in another rating but I see more problems with ZigZag Madness: The opening array is counterintuitive and hard to memorize (which augmented knight is on which flank? And which of the twopath bent riders goes to either flank?) and it suffers from an unprotected pawn. So my advice is: Read what is already here (especially the essays of Ralph Betza) and quote the sources of your inspiration, giving credit whom credit is due. --JKn
Larry Smith: | In the South, they refer to a pattern which continued one angle | past a simple zigzag step as a 'dog leg'. Interesting how they | also incorporated two three-letter words which ended in 'g'. :-) Well, so call them 'dog-leg pieces', and you would hear no objection from me. :-) Which 'South' are you talking about? Zigzag is actually a Dutch word. It is related to 'zaag', (Dutch for 'saw'), and describes the saw-tooth shape of its cutting edge. The English equivalent would be 'jigsaw'.
Dutch is actually a Franco derivation of German, and didn't appear until four or five hundred A.D. German is a little bit older. And jigsaw has a whole other etymology. ''vertical reciprocating saw,' 1873, Amer.Eng., from jig with its notion of 'rapid up-and-down motion.' Jigsaw puzzle first recorded 1909; originally one with pieces cut by a jigsaw.' Although 'jig' is of Irish and Scottish origin, it might originate in the French 'gigue' or dance(in a sense, 'to shake a leg'). And 'saw' comes from the German 'Säge'. So they had a term for a repetitive 'zickzack'. ;-) And everyone knows 'The South'. At least those from the United States. But I've found that even people outside the country know the reference.
19 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.