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Comments by vickalan

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Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Mon, Feb 13, 2017 06:40 PM UTC:

How do you post a diagram? I tried to post an image of the guard in one thread, but it doesn't show immediately on the page. An icon needs to be clicked again to see the graphic.

Marseillais Chess. Move twice per turn. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

V. Reinhart wrote on Mon, Feb 13, 2017 06:54 PM UTC:

Wow, this rule change makes a big difference to the game of chess!

The sample games were finished in 4, 7, 18, and 13 moves - each move certainly has much more influence on the game play.

I've been trying to think of ways to "add power" to the game "Chess on an Infinite Plane" without adding more or stronger pieces. This might be a good way to do it (but maybe with some limitations).

Is there anyone who would like to try such a game? I'm open to any new and innovative ideas. If you have any favorite pieces, we can try those also (but I'm looking for more than just a mix of new pieces).

The games in play for Chess on an Infinite Plane are going well so far. I'm just interested in a version which might somewhat amplify the game power a little.

Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Tue, Feb 14, 2017 01:29 PM UTC:

Ok, Thanks Kevin. I didn't know there was a diagram maker on this site. I'm impressed that it can make diagrams with hexagonal shapes. Your diagram also appears to be an interesting start to a new game. Thanks for the info.

V. Reinhart wrote on Wed, Feb 15, 2017 02:52 PM UTC:

That's really cool. You used vibrant colors with a good yellow/green theme which makes it very aesthetically pleasing.

Is the goal to eventually make this become a chess variant? I won't tell the moderators if you are just using this to make play art.;)

You're making me wonder if this Diagram Designer can be used to show the board set-up for "Chess on an Infinite Plane". The initial view is usually 20 files x 22 ranks. One minor problem is that the files are labeled by numbers rather than letters (to allow easier notation for when pieces move very far left or right).

The last steps would be to find replacement symbols for the guard, chancellor, and hawk. There's also a Huygens - but I have not found anyone who will play me in a game with that option yet. The huygens jumps prime numbers of squares (3, 5, 7, 11,...).

Thanks for sharing the diagrams. I'll check here again to see what else gets discovered!

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 16, 2017 01:32 AM UTC:

I saw Diagram Designer, but I don't undersand where you go to practice making those diagrams.

It mentions adding diagrams to your own page, but I see no link where to do that.

Are you doing these on one of your own pages, or if not, where do you go to make such diagrams (prior to adding it to this thread)?

What is a Chess variant?. An essay on what distinguishes a Chess variant from other games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 16, 2017 08:20 PM UTC:

Great information. Thanks for sharing. That's interesting that you mentioned wargames, and how there you can move more than one piece per turn.

In "Chess on an Infinite Plane" I've been thinking of allowing some situations where more than one piece can be moved per turn (but rather infrequently, and mostly only when the two pieces are in distinctly different locations, i.e. different localized battles).

I haven't implemented it yet, but your mention of wargames makes me think that there may be a rather large upper bounds for this. Good article!

Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 16, 2017 08:36 PM UTC:

Thanks Kevin, that helps a lot!

Here's my first chess diagram made by HTML code (which I'm pretty sure is an illegal position):

Your information is a big help.:)

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 16, 2017 08:41 PM UTC:

It showed up correctly at Diagram Designer. Not sure what's missing here.

(That is, it showed correctly an illegal chess position).

Well, for now, at least I can make diagrams at the Designer page.:)

V. Reinhart wrote on Fri, Feb 17, 2017 04:21 PM UTC:

Here is the code which represents the starting position for "Chess on an Infinite Plane":

Kevin: Thanks for your help with using Diagram Designer. (I'm still trying to learn how "colors" works, and if there is a reference somewhere that shows selections available with code to use).

I will submit this soon so it's shown here also in the ChessVariants Pages. It's already being played at the chess.com forum. (I recently lost a rook in one game, putting me behind):(

Also, can anyone tell me why the code does not display in these threads? It works at the Designer Page. Am I missing something to make it display here?

Thanks,

V. Reinhart wrote on Fri, Feb 17, 2017 06:51 PM UTC:

I have one more question I hope someone can help me with:

I would like to switch the colors of the black and white squares of the chessboard in this diagram:

The pattern colors are specified by:

D3D3D3 FFFACD F5DEB3

But when I move sections around, I can't get the colors to switch as expected. Can anyone explain how this works?

It's just a minor detail, but I would prefer if I can make the diagram so that the queen is on her own color. (I like to keep with tradition, except for the variant rules that are actually being revised).

Thanks if anyone can help.:)

Chess on an Infinite Plane[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Fri, Feb 17, 2017 08:57 PM UTC:

I am posting the game instructions at this forum for comments, and to see if anyone would like to play. I also submitted the game to be posted on these pages, which I assume Fergus will do once he's finished with the review.

"Chess on an Infinite Plane"

Introduction:

"Chess on an Infinite Plane" is a chess variant played on a chessboard of infinite size. This version uses Fergus Duniho's innovative and abstract piece images.

The game starts with additional material not just for variety, but to help make enough material available in the endgame so that one player can force a win. Since there are no borders, pieces (and in particular the king) cannot be trapped at edges or in corners. The chancellors (R+N) provide immediate ability to create long distance attacks. There are also additional pawns, including some in rearward formations (called jÃ¤ger units), which typically enter play late in the midgame, and can create the threat of additional promoted pieces. There are hawks centered in the jÃ¤ger units, which protect the rearmost pawns, but can leave their formations and enter into spectacular play. Each player also has two guards, which can be used as king defenders or for other strategic play.

Setup:

Pieces:

Black and White each have the following pieces: 1 king, 1 queen, 2 chancellors, 2 rooks, 2 bishops, 2 knights, 2 guards, 2 hawks, and 24 pawns.

All pieces move as in classical chess, with the "extra" three piece types moving as follows:

Chancellor (C) - Moves and captures as rook + knight.

Hawk (H) - Leaps exactly 2 or 3 squares in any orthogonal or diagonal direction. The leaping move means it can jump over other pieces.

Guard (G) - Moves and captures the same as a king but is not affected by check.

Pawns play the same and promote at the same rank as in classical chess. (Using the board coordinates shown in the diagram, white pawnsÂ promote at rank 15, andÂ blackÂ pawns promote at rank 8). Pawns can promote to chancellor, hawk, or guard in addition to queen, rook, bishop, or knight. Pawns may capture en passant with the same rules as in classical chess.

There is no castling.

There is no fifty-move rule. Draws can only occur from stalemate, threefold repetition, agreement, or a proven case of insufficient material to force checkmate.

All other rules are the same as in classical (FIDE) chess.

The Chessboard:

1. Board for OTB Play:

A playing area should be setup with at least 22 ranks and 20 files. Ensure provisions are available to expand the board ifÂ play requires. If this becomes inconvenient due to far-away pieces, a display board is used to indicate the location of remote pieces. If there is interesting play in small but remote areas, other playing areas can be labeled and used separately from the main board.

2. Diagram for Online Play:

A chess diagram is used to indicate the position of pieces either after each move by white, or each move by black. The diagramÂ should include 22 ranks and 20 files. If any pieces are moved outside of this area, the diagram is expanded or notes are shared to indicate the location of far-away pieces.Â If there is interesting play in small but remote areas, other diagrams can be used to show piece positions separately from the main diagram.

Ranks are numbered just as in classical chess; ranks 16 and higher are deeper into black's side; ranks 7 and less are deeper into white's side.

Files visible in the initial diagram are labeled a - t. From white's view, they continue to the right u - z, and then aa,ab,ac, and so on. The file immediately to the left of "a" is "phi" ("Ï†"). Files further to the left are -a,-b,-c, and so on to -z, and then -aa, -ab, -ac, and so on. For convenience, the "Ï†" file can be written "0". (The zero file = "Ï†" = "0")

Parenthesis are used around each square identification. Some examples of move notations are as follows (view from white):

1) A rook moving to the left from e8 to a8:

R(e8)-(a8) or R(a8)

(With a classical board, this would be "Ra8")

2) A rook moving to the left one square from the a8 square:

R(a8)-(Ï†8) or R(Ï†8) or R(08)

3) A rook moving to the left three squares from the a8 square:

R(a8)-(-b8) or R(-b8)

4) A rook moving vertically three squares from e8 farther back into white:

R(e8)-(e5) or R(e5)

(The game can also be played using numerical coordinates for both files and ranks, as is usually played at chess.com)

Notes:

Other sub-variants exist including:

1) Chess on an Infinite Plane with Huygens Option - The huygens is a piece which leaps 5, 7, 11, 13, and all larger prime numbers of squares in orthogonal directions. The huygens are initially located to protect one of the pawns in the jÃ¤ger units, thus, making it safer for the hawks to leave their positions and join other battles. (as a side effect, the huygens may ensure that this variant of chess will never be "solved" by computers, as the complete set of prime numbers is itself unknown).

2) Formation Chess/Infinite Plane - The Battle of Kadesh - Each player starts with a large number of knights (usually twelve or more). The knights can join into 2x2 formations, gaining the ability to move together as a queen. The group must stop moving when at least one of the members encounters an occupied square. A group can capture an opponentâ€™s piece, but only one and not more than one per move. If the group falls apart, or one member is captured, the remainder play again as knights. (This hybrid version was invented by EvertVB).

Thanks to Fergus Duniho for making Diagram Designer available, and also the abstract piece collection. Also thanks to Kevin Pacey for helping with Diagram Designer.

by Vickalan.

I will also be happy to consider other variations of the rules, or to play with other pieces. Please contact me if interested in playing a game.

Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Fri, Feb 17, 2017 09:14 PM UTC:

Thanks Kevin, you've been a big help! I just added the game to a new thread. I was even able to switch the square colors so the queens are now on her own color. Fergus Duniho's abstract (and cubist) piece images were also very helpful to make the chess diagram have a nice appearance.

I have many questions about this game, which I hope people on these forums might be able to answer. (For example what are some example of pieces required to checkmate on an infinite plane?)

And I also hope someone will play me in a game.

Thanks again!

Chess on an Infinite Plane with Huygens Option[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Sat, Feb 18, 2017 03:25 PM UTC:

I'm now posting the rules for a sub-variant of "Chess on an Infinite Plane:

"Chess on an Infinite Plane with Huygens Option"

Introduction:

"Chess on an Infinite Plane with Huygens Option" is a chess variant played on a chessboard of infinite size. This version uses Fergus Duniho's innovative and abstract piece images.

The game includes two huygens for each color. Huygens can jump 5, 7, 11 and other prime numbers of squares in orthogonal directions (i.e. 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31...). Since it jumps in prime numbers, other jumpers such as the knight and hawk, need to make an inefficient maneuver when pursuing a huygens, causing wasted moves. The huygens do not add a lot of strength to the army, but may have some effect on play. They are initially located to protect one of the pawns in each of the rearward formations (jÃ¤ger units). Thus, it is safer for the hawks to leave their positions and join other battles. (The huygens is named after Christiaan Huygens, a Dutch mathematician who studied the rings of Saturn and invented the pendulum clock).

As with the base version of this game, other new pieces are included not just for variety, but to help make enough material available in the endgame so that one player can force a win. Since there are no borders, the king cannot be trapped in a corner. The chancellors (R+N) provide immediate ability to create long distance attacks. There are also additional pawns, including those in the jÃ¤ger units, which can create a threat of additional promoted pieces. A hawk is centered in each jÃ¤ger unit, initially protecting the rearmost pawns, but can leave its formation and enter into spectacular play. Each player also has two guards, which can be used as king defenders or for other strategic play.

Setup:

Pieces:

Black and White each have the following pieces: 1 king, 1 queen, 2 chancellors, 2 rooks, 2 bishops, 2 knights, 2 guards, 2 hawks, 2 huygens, and 22 pawns.

All pieces move as in classical chess, with the "extra" four piece types moving as follows:

Chancellor - Moves and captures as rook + knight.

Hawk - Leaps exactly 2 or 3 squares in any orthogonal or diagonal direction. The leaping move means it can jump over other pieces.

Guard - Moves and captures the same as a king but is not affected by check.

Huygens - Jumps 5, 7, 11 and other prime numbers of squares in orthogonal directions (5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29...).

Pawns play the same and promote at the same rank as in classical chess. (Using the board coordinates shown in the diagram, white pawnsÂ promote at rank 14, andÂ blackÂ pawns promote at rank 7). Pawns can promote to chancellor, hawk, or guard in addition to queen, rook, bishop, or knight. Pawns may capture en passant with the same rules as in classical chess.

There is no castling.

There is no fifty-move rule. Draws can only occur from stalemate, threefold repetition, agreement, or a proven case of insufficient material to force checkmate.

All other rules are the same as in classical (FIDE) chess.

The Chessboard:

1. Board for OTB Play:

2. Diagram for Online Play:

Ranks are numbered just as in classical chess; ranks 15 and higher are deeper into black's side; ranks 6 and less are deeper into white's side.

Parenthesis are used around each square identification. Some examples of move notations are as follows (view from white):

1) A rook moving to the left from e8 to a8:

R(e8)-(a8) or R(a8)

(With a classical board, this would be "Ra8")

2) A rook moving to the left one square from the a8 square:

R(a8)-(Ï†8) or R(Ï†8) or R(08)

3) A rook moving to the left three squares from the a8 square:

R(a8)-(-b8) or R(-b8)

4) A rook moving vertically three squares from e8 farther back into white:

R(e8)-(e5) or R(e5)

(The game can also be played using numerical coordinates for both files and ranks, as is usually played at chess.com)

Notes:

Thanks to Fergus Duniho for making Diagram Designer available, and also the abstract piece collection. Also thanks to Kevin Pacey for helping with Diagram Designer.

by Vickalan.

I will also be happy to consider other variations of the rules, or to play with other pieces. Please contact me if interested in playing a game.

Chess on an Infinite Plane[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Sat, Feb 18, 2017 04:18 PM UTC:

Thanks Aurelian! I read about your variant Enep. I like the short and succint name. I know it means Enhanced Knight Exrtra Pawn, but the name also sounds Norse or Scandanavian (I think that might be where gnomes came from).

I also like the simplicity of the game. Chess can already be very complicated, so only a minor rule change is needed to make a good variant. Your variant sounds intriguing. When I finish one or two other games (I'm usually playing about 5-7 games concurrently, one move per day), I might want to play Enep.:)

Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Sun, Feb 19, 2017 10:59 PM UTC:

I also submitted a variant (Chess on an Infinite Plane using classical chess pieces) on 2/16, but haven't seen or heard anything yet.

I'm interested in seeing yours:)

Chess on an Infinite Plane[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Tue, Feb 21, 2017 06:51 AM UTC:

Hi Aurelian,I'm not sure why my name shows up with question marks. I see it that way too.

Btw, did you finish any more work with Enap? Are you testing it by playing for real, or by testing it some other way?

V. Reinhart wrote on Tue, Feb 21, 2017 03:35 PM UTC:

Oh that's cool!

I noticed in the notes you said you only played one game. Can you make the engines play multiple times (like 50 games)? If you can play a game cpu vs. cpu why not a bigger study?

Also, if you're moving around pawns to balance the game, have you thought about adding two pawns to each side? For example, you give one side pawns in weak positions (a and h?) and the other side strong (c and f?). This MIGHT let the setup be symmetrical (althought that doesn't really have a benefit except for aesthetics).

I think it's cool that you are doing experimentation to improve the game. I'm not sure how much fine-tuning is possible. You might be able to get it so that it is so balance that white's first move advantage is gone. (that means one side will always get the knightwa.

Unfortunatelly for me, I don't think there are any engines that play chess on an infinite board. So I can't test "Chess on an Infinite Plane" with an engine. But my games with three real people are going well (I think I'm winning in won, near tie in another, and losing one).

I am starting to study a new version. It might have a few more pieces, but in certain situations TWO pieces can be moved in one turn. For example, moving two pawns in one move, moving two bishops together when they are adjacent to each other, or moving two pieces if they are still in their original positions but engaged in different localized battles. My goal is to help the opening game move faster, and add new dynamics.

When playing by correspondence (1 move per day), I think a 50-100 move game is OK, but if the game last more than 200 moves that might be getting too long.

Suggestions by anyone are welcome!:)

V. Reinhart wrote on Tue, Feb 21, 2017 04:19 PM UTC:

Ok great, keep me updated if you find a new variation of Enap!

Like I said before, I really like the name, and the simplicity of the initial setup is very elegant I think.

In fact, I think the name, and the game match each other very well.

Here is the setup I am considering for my next game. It uses the "huygens" which is a piece which jumps prime numbers of squares. That's the piece with a triangular outer shape and cross-shaped cutout (from icons by Furgus Duniho).

A more detailed description of the huygens is here .

Thanks for sharing info about Enap!

V. Reinhart wrote on Tue, Feb 21, 2017 04:43 PM UTC:

Enep, that's right! I'm very sorry.

The huygens will add more trouble if anyone wants to make a chess engine that uses it. For one thing, the list of all prime numbers is hard to describe (they aren't even all known). But if played in a normal game, it should not be hard to use as long as it doesn't move far.

The largest known prime number is [2^(74,207,281) − 1] which has 22,338,618 digits. If anyone wants to move a hugens farther than that, first they will have to prove the number is prime. I won't wait for any player who wants to make such a move!:)

For Enep, I'll remember "Enhanced knight - extra pawn"!

Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 23, 2017 02:30 AM UTC:

Hi Kevin, how do you call that 4D? (are you refering to 4 dimensions)?

The 55x55 is a large 2D format. Then you cut out sections to give you islands, which can be considered

groups of 2D, so now you have 3D. Where does the 4D come from?

Btw, the pieces are small in your diagram, but I think it would still be playable. These topics are interesting to me, because I'm continuing to explore the possibilities of playing chess on very large and infinite-size chessboards. But there is a point when pieces can be moved too far, and could not be displayed on a single image. (but I have found no reason anyone would want to move pieces extremelly far from their setup positions anyways).

Also, how did you find the code to use to select the green and green/yellow hexagons? Just trial and error, or is there a methodical way to select specific colors?

Keep up the good work! And let me know where the 4D comes from.:)

V. Reinhart wrote on Thu, Feb 23, 2017 03:59 PM UTC:

Thanks Kevin, It looks like you've made many variations of hexagonal-based board shapes. They are very interesting. That's also a good tip to use the "-" to block out squares, to make even more interesting board patterns. I've thought of doing that in an initial diagram, to add "walls" or other obstructions in a chessboard, but have not done so yet.

As for experimenting with large diagrams, I took a previous image and "zoomed-out" to a 50x50 grid. This represents a previous game set-up (it is not new), but it is an expanded view which can be used in the event pieces "spread out" during play.

Good work on your diagrams and, thanks for all the tips you've been sharing:)

The Huygens Chess Piece[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Fri, Feb 24, 2017 12:05 AM UTC:

The Huygens Chess Piece

The huygens is a chess piece that jumps in a rook's direction any prime number of squares (2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23,...). I use it in the chess variant Trappist-1.

"H" - Huygens

In some games it may be limited to a minimum jump so that it is not a close attacker. The following are my estimates of the huygens' value based on its minimum jump:

Allowed Jumps - Estimated Piece Value:
2, 3, 5, 7, 11...(value = rook + 2 pawns)
3, 5, 7, 11... (value = rook+)
5, 7, 11... (value = bishop+)

There are an infinite number of prime numbers, so in theory a huygens can jump infinitely far. However, not all prime numbers are known. The largest known prime number is [2^(74,207,281) − 1] (which has 22,338,618 digits). Although a huygens can jump infinitely far, when playing chess, the players must declare the specific square that a piece is to be moved to. So this limits the distance that a huygens can travel in a single move. It is the player that moves the huygens that carries the burden to prove that a number is prime. (If his opponent requests it, he would need to cite the source showing the leaping distance is a prime number).

An example of a large legal move would be:

Hb[(2,996,863,034,895â€Šx 2^(1,290,000) + 1], Chris K. Caldwell. "The Top Twenty Twin Primes"

In an actual game there would not normally be any reason to move a piece this far, because then it would lose its targets, and especially its ability to create forks in different directions. But I think it's good to make sure all the rules of a game and its pieces are carefully defined, so there will be no questions or points of contention once a game starts.

The huygens (white) is shown in the diagram below on square b2, and its moves are indicated with red symbols. This diagram is a 50x50 grid, but when played in Chess on an Infinite Plane, the huygens can jump to numerous other squares outside the boundary of this diagram.

A link to Trappist-1 is here:

Trappist-1

The birth of two variants: Apothecary chess 1 & Apothecary chess 2[Subject Thread] [Add Response]

V. Reinhart wrote on Sat, Feb 25, 2017 01:20 PM UTC:

Where do we read about the fool or the game it is used in? I could not find any info about apothecary chess. Did you post any info any about it yet?

V. Reinhart wrote on Sat, Feb 25, 2017 04:38 PM UTC:

@Aurelian Florea

Yes of course I'd like to see the game idea. I thought you were asking us to speculate on the fool without knowing what it does. Now you and Greg explained it. That's the same piece sometimes called the Joker.

Honestly, I like the name Joker more. The fool is used in Courier Chess as a not-very-strong piece (i.e. "foolish"). I think the Joker sounds better because Jokers are unpredicatable.

Btw, here is an example game with a joker (with images for the full game): Bulldog chess-angel joker game .

Regardless, your game sounds interesting! The Fool/Joker piece always add a lot of fun "new strategy" to a game.:)

V. Reinhart wrote on Sat, Feb 25, 2017 06:29 PM UTC:

The game is finished, but if you want to see of an example of the Joker's moves (right in the middle of a complexÂ position) you can check move 28 and 29. It might give some insight to the joker's value:

28...Bf7Â (black bishop attacks joker)
29.Jxf7Â Â (joker gets the bishop's move and captures the bishop)
29...Qxf7 (white captures the black joker in return)

This shows joker may indeed be about the average of the other pieces.
Black willing to give up bishop for joker. (calculating joker is worth more).
White sacrifices joker to capture bishop (calculating bishop is worth more).

So joker must be somewhere in the middle. :)

You have a good combination of game pieces. I also like the archbishop and chancellor. I can't wait to see the graphics you use.

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