Enter Your Reply The Comment You're Replying To Rich Hutnik wrote on Fri, Nov 27, 2009 07:06 PM UTC:Hello Fergus. I think it would be useful to clarify a bit of what I was speaking about here: 1. My use of 'art' is meant to be in contrast to that of 'science'. In one sense 'art' and 'craft' were put next to each other. You can take what I said to speak about something created that can be admired for its quality and stand alone. 2. While I can understand and appreciate designer's works standing alone, as a fine piece of work, I am also of the belief games are designed to be played, and not just put in some museum somewhere. Because of this, I believe there needs to be a dialog between the designer and players of games, to make sure what comes about is played. We can continue to follow the old path of 'monkeys at the typewriter' spitting out more and more works, and hope one sticks, with each game is its own and end of discussion. But I believe for a game to grow, it needs a community of players behind it. To this end, the community needs to feel as they are part owners over the game, and have input. You can see examples of this involvement in 'crowdsourcing': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing Part of the reason for FIDE Chess being what it is, is that a community adopted the game, and how it developed wasn't from one person, but a community that played it and codified the rules. I know designers wish they could create stand-alone games that would get the same degree of reverence FIDE Chess has. But I believe, unless a community feels the game is their game, it isn't going to happen. 3. As for the effectiveness of the stand-alone game method, I can refer to what you wrote in the original NextChess thread goes into the problems we face with the current approach: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?subjectid=NextChess As for 'why not just have a collection of variants like we have now, and no do some NextChess'. Well, how is this working? Let me answer this...: Equipment Availability Good. My comment: Availability I would rate actually as poor. One can theoretically make their own equipment for everything. However, that doesn't mean that equipment is readily available. Most games are given as gifts to other people. If giving gifts is the criterion of availability, how exactly can we rate equipment availability as good? Take the example of Games Magazine in its Games 100 lists. They list chess variants, and tell people about Grand Chess. People get interested. Ok, now where do they get the board and pieces? They don't. They have to make them. Player Interest Poor. Some variants have fairly large followings and most don't. I'm sure it is also that way with card games, for which most everyone already has the equipment. Most people are simply interested in playing the same games everyone else already knows how to play. In most places around the world, it will be easy to find someone else who plays Chess, but probably next to impossible to find someone who plays your favorite variants. Naturally, the promotion of Chess variants helps, but I don't know what promotion of some kind of meta-game would do in addition to this. 4. We have some practical reasons to get NextChess to function. We need to have it so that we can make it commercially viable to supply equipment for. Despite people saying 'Let's just be digital' such doesn't have the same degree of accessibility through physical equipment to have things take off. And unlike cardgames, we DON'T have equipment readily available at all. Like, how about going out and getting a 10x10 chess board in North America? Sorry, not easily doable. Edit Form You may not post a new comment, because ItemID NextChess4 does not match any item.