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Man and Beast 21: Lords High Everything-Else. Systematic naming of pieces that do not fit in any of the other articles.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🔔Notification on Mon, Jan 22 11:13 PM UTC:

The editor Ben Reiniger has revised this page.


Sean wrote on Tue, Jul 9, 2013 06:38 AM UTC:
This crazed chess variant is so out of my league; either the author is completely insane or full-on autistic, I have no idea.

George Duke wrote on Fri, Jan 6, 2012 04:18 PM UTC:
Joyce's preferred DWAF7 is allowed two 90- or 45-degree changes of direction and has maximum reach of 14, such as on 10x16 a1-o13 by a1-c3-e5-g7-i7-k9-m11-o13. Since the components can all be diagonal, a1-o15 is another move from corner to corner but one (p16 is the corner). With W and Ferz also part of the package, all 160 square are reachable (Joyce favours the size), including the interior. DWAF7 is kind of the end-point in Joyce Daisy development so far.

George Duke wrote on Tue, Jan 3, 2012 04:45 PM UTC:
Leaving the piece generator Sequential SuperClass aside for the moment, what are some other interesting pieces out of Joyce/Paulowich bent-stem Daisies order 3? Add Wazir leg and the Daisy loses colourboundness. (W + DaDaoDay) reaches up to 16 squares no longer colourbound. Its counterpart (W + AlAldAly also has 16 arrival squares and, while not at all colourswitching like Knight, is no longer colourbound either. So the two compounds above parenthesized each on own reach every square on rectangular boards over 8x10. At root they are some counterparts really to original Bent Hero and Bent Shaman, M&B. Inspiration for the Daisy class, Bent Hero and Shaman each reach 20 squares, covering 40 of the 48 surrounding central departure square of a 7x7 -- excluding just the Zebran eight. Next, how could inventive Joyce's War Machine order 7, made out of these all Daisy chains, stack up with problemist Conway's Angels n=15?

George Duke wrote on Mon, Jan 2, 2012 08:33 PM UTC:
[the compound at end now has corrected value and name, 3.Jan.12.] DaDaDa and DaDaDay and DaDaoDa are different but related Dabbabah-riders, each having the same maximum reach. Enforced orthogonal 'o' first leg to second is one of the Joyce/Paulowich ''Daisy'' pieces, here DaDaoDa. Omitting the 'o', DaDaDa is also required three-stepper of six squares, DaDaDa, its two changes of direction allowing either 0 degrees or 90 degrees. And adding the 'y', ''optional,'' DaDaDay alone of these first three examples can stop only four squares removed from any given departure square. __________________________The others having the same maximum move length but different footprints based on only strict component-Dabbabah legs: DaDaDao, DaDaDaoy, DaDaoDao, DaDaoDaoy, DaDaoDay; DaDayDa, DaDayDay, DaDaoyDa, DaDayDao, DaDayDaoy, DaDaoyDao, DaDaoyDaoy, DaDaoyDay. So there are 16 p-ts closely related and subtly unique. More multiply can be generated by restricting to Gilmanesque FO, Forward Only, one or more legs, as well as other combinations involving sideways and backwards too in the mix. The eight above with 'y' in the middle leg can stop after the Dabbabah first step. All together, expect there to be easily over 100 definably reasonable p-ts technically that are each having the same up-to-three-step Dabbabah-rider mode based on the Joyce/Paulowich ''Daisy sub-class 3'' and not higher to 4 and more(a couple listed not permitting even their Daisy-stalk bend let alone any double-bend of others). Far the majority of the approximately 3000 M&Bxxs named p-ts -- still considerably less than the <10000 sometimes mentioned casually as approximation for M&B01-21 -- are devised and named in situ without ever appearing in any concrete CV. Above, short- to mid-range Dabbabah alone, using the Sequential SuperClass piece-type generator methodology on Joyce/Paulowich invention(s), yields that 100 or so piece-types; and the same number exist from Alfil, also treated separately to practical Sequential application, 100 Alfil-riders up to length 3 steps or 6 squares. Every one of these is good, solid mid-range-at-most piece-type out of just one atomic unit, having utility on boards under 257 squares. All to follow and critique will continue that Gilman-initiated name-as-you-go with no mis-direction. To the extent ''Lords High Everything Else'' conveys a sense of completion, ever to say is that it is not so; for every new or old entry a thousand-fold continuations. _________________________For example, consider the piece-values of any, and all as to range, of these Colourbounders. Joyce and Paolowich's main DaDaoDa is worth the 3.0 points of very comparable Bishop upon boards 8x12 to 16x16. Therefore, each of 100 Dabbabah-riders up to 3-st/6-squ are well worth considering bi-compounding with each of 100 Alfil-riders: 10,000 compounds total to choose among, fortunately all pre-named, each worth in the Range of 5.1 to 8.9, more than the Rook and less than the Queen all boards. Of course, actual designers will have their preferences for particular CVs and narrow them down. For example, compound (DaDaoDa + AlAlydAlyd) is moderate compound close to 6.4 by being Mover Either precisely as Joyce's stalked Daisy [here so far, Dab. only not W.] 6 squares allowed to turn 90 degrees the last leg OR if using the Alfil half, there is no such change of direction but can stop at 1,2, or 3 steps to the second, fourth, or sixth square out diagonally if no obstruction(s).

George Duke wrote on Sat, Dec 31, 2011 05:40 PM UTC:
Joyce and Paulowich have significantly ''three-step Dabbabah-Rider with the final leg bent.'' That would be different from DaDaDa, because the latter allows either or both legs bent. Like Joyce's, DaDaDa is enforced 6-step Dabbabah and DaDaDay, 'y' meaning optional, is 4- or 6- because of third leg option (whether bent or straight). Here, staying with just two for now, both can have 90-degree turn(s) en route. DaDaDa and DaDaDay are distinct and more liberal than that earlier Joyce's main three-stepper of six squares, to be compared later. Their footprints are different between the two of them. On one hand, DaDaDa on 8x8 from e1 reaches a3, c1, c5, e7, g1, g5; and other, DaDaDay reaches all those plus a1, c3, e5, g3. As Joyce and Paulowich certainly found out inventing the originals, the arrival squares are not automatic because these piece-types are not leapers. I.e., there has to be a pathway. To move e1 to e7, there has to be clearance at e3 and e5, and this 'e1-e3-e5-e7' is just a single one-path route; and further specifically only DaDaDay can stop on e5 at option, not going all the way to e7. Another example: 'e1 to g5' is three-path for both piece-types. The three pathways: e1-e3-e5-g5, e1-e3-g3-g5, e1-g1-g3-g5. Another: 'e1-c3' is two-way for Dadaday. They take no more getting used to than some Rook route d4-d5-d6-d7-d8, once knowing the natural move-rule. '8x8' is convenient, but these all are perfect p-ts for 8x12, 10x16, and 16x16. Once playing western Chess multi-pathers, any CV without at least one is like modern Xiangqi without Cannon: plain vanilla. (Most Sequentials are found to be also multi-path, the more likely the more component-legs.) The core Sequential Super-Class p-ts should be the many comprised of 'W and D' and 'F and A' and made from them, but there is no reason to restrict to those combinations of pre-existing pieces only. __________________________In furtherance of nomenclature, besides DaDaDa and DaDaDay, Bent Hero himself, who is become a compound, is alternatively called 'DaWay + WaDay'. That piece-name for Bent Hero is less Betza notational than Gilman nomenclative. Later to be considered is Joyce's notation. Gilman or others could cover Sequential piece-types in chapters let's say some 30-39, naming by ordinary repetition; but reduplication will be better mnemonically when there are different compound legs other than Wa-zir and Da-bbabah, which happen to have their common shared euphonic 'a'. Now Gilman at 13 has added a paragraph starting ''lemurian,'' Chapter13. Other sequential piece-type Reduplications: even steven, mish-mash, fancy-schmancy, double trouble, wingding, king pin.

George Duke wrote on Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:56 PM UTC:
There is Jeremy Good's Complementarity article too towards potential Sequential Super-Class extensions from atoms, along with Joe Joyce's material. Before continuing, notice Charles Gilman's M&Bxxs are light on applying Mutators so far to piece-types. Double and more moves apply a Mutator to existing piece-types, to generate more for larger boards. There is enough already in defining and naming M&B01-21; M&Bs also omit openings and piece values, but those would be helpful in Gilman CVs like everyone else's.

Joe Joyce wrote on Fri, Dec 30, 2011 07:44 PM UTC:
Okay, George, you've drawn me out briefly. Thanks for the kind mention of a pair of my pieces. As minimalist short range power pieces, I think they do their job. Certainly one of my better bits of spot design in the shatranj series. For what it's worth, I continued working on the piece series in the CVwiki. Much credit [or blame] goes to David Paulowich, who spent some time discussing the basic ideas. I had to extend Betza notation to cover these rather strange pieces, and have managed a few descriptive notations of existing pieces, although it doesn't cover any of the longer ranged pieces mentioned below. http://chessvariants.wikidot.com/joe-s-strange-notation And the multiply-leaping dabbabah with optional turn on last step I've been calling a daisy, as it has a stalk of varied length and a differentiated 'head'. The discussion is buried on the Pond Scum page. [Graeme was right, I should change that page name.] Anyway, allow me to copy directly from the wiki: Daisies

'A daisy is a stalked plant. Maybe the stalk is short, and maybe the stalk is long, but the stalk always grows first, then the flower can bloom at the end of the stalk.
Stalks are Dabbabahs and Alfils; they can grow any length.
Flowers are Wazirs and Ferzes, they only happen at the end of the stalk.
You may have a stalk length of zero squares, giving the pieces just the wazir or ferz move.
A stalk length of two squares gives the hero and shaman.
This piece might be nice for breaking into defended areas as its range increases.
The movement track is a saw-toothed pattern.'

David Paulowich and I were discussing a piece of this idea a while back, a 3-step dababbah-rider [a linear piece], and he was the first to suggest in print that the final step could be bent, so I promised I'd give him this much-deserved mention. I'd generalize it to 'the last leap made can be bent', and add it to my rules mix here, for sure.

You've got some options in combining daisies with the Paulowich bend.

    you can keep the 2 piece-types separate
    you can allow one piece both options, but not on the same turn
    you can allow a piece both options on the same turn - you might consider limiting the total range of this really nasty move.

1/10/08 [cont from above]

Let's start with 2 pieces, a 'matched pair' of DW and AF, along with their leaders.

The DW7 WarMachine -
This piece may move in a straight line as a dababbah 7 times;
or may move 6 times as a dababbah and once as a wazir, in a straight line.
It may move 5 times in a straight line as a dababbah, then once as a dababbah or once as a wazir, in any direction.
It may move 4 times in a straight line as a dababbah, then once as a dababbah and once as a wazir, in any [1 or 2] directions.

Another option would allow the piece to choose a wazir move at any [or every] step of its move.
Clearly, you could alter movement specs - just for example, anyone would be able to figure out what a DW6 or DW8 was, and how it worked.

The AF7 WarElephant is the diagonal equivalent of the orthogonal WarMachine, jumping 2 squares diagonally as an alfil or stepping 1 square diagonally as a ferz, and getting 'the Bends' with the same costs and restrictions as the warmachine. The move as ferz any or every step is also the same.

The DWAF7 General is the leader unit. It also moves up to 7 steps, as either the WarMachine or WarElephant, above, with these exceptions.
It has no movement penalty for making its 2 'bent' moves, it may always move up to 7 steps.
It may, in place of a standard 'bent' step, switch movement modes: if it was moving as a DW, it may move once [or twice] as an AF, and vice-versa.

George Duke wrote on Fri, Dec 30, 2011 05:15 PM UTC:
On account of ongoing revisions per suggestions, years 2006-2012 M&Bxxs  to some extent belong to all.  There is no piece category yet for innovative Bent Hero and Shaman, http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSlemurianshatra.   Year 2011 ''Concise Guide...,'' for example, includes Double Pieces, who require two legs of same type per turn.  That would be strict subclass of Sequential, and Joyce's brilliancies are implicated *Optional Sequential* p-ts.  However the distinct categories happen to overlap among several that are related, there are thousands upon thousands newly to name, given these general plural Movers for generating piece-types. Some equivalent to M&B30 to M&B39 could be devoted to PLURAL/SEQUENTIAL/DOUBLE piece-type super-Class. They of inventive Joyce are that important as effective avenue to the higher boards. 
____________That is, play on 16x16 256, the lower bound of extremely large, is enhanced by preserving elemental units.  In fact, 256-square embodiments to date deleteriously over-stress long-rangers. On 256 squares Dabbabah is dwarfed but 'Dabbabah + Dabbabah + Dabbabah optional third leg' very effective minor piece. Note like Hero and Shaman there is change of direction. 'D+D+D-optional' can go up to six squares and cross the 16x16 in three with room to spare.  To name it, 'DaDaDay' is that piece-type by reduplicative modus operandi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication.  In DaDaDay 'y' suffix means optional final leg, because the 'io' in optional is 'y' by sound. Doubling or tripling syllable or word connotes the move itself within nomenclature for the Class Sequential. So any optional final leg to arrival square ends in '-Y', else if enforced for a given p-t no 'Y': the latter DaDaDa or meaning the same thing descriptive 'DaDaDabbabah', also a grammatical reduplication (mathematical iteration). This is unexplored Gilman territory and Betza funny notation is too truncated to see it. Two distinct types then so far: DaDaDa and DaDaDay, and both cling to the root Dabbabah. When the legs are different, it is now inconvenient to use both roots (Gilman excepted) in that there are many suitable reduplications to draw on and devise for these all new unnamed p-ts of different-sequed movements. English-only examples: rolly polly, howdy doody, willy nilly, gooble gobble, boogie woogie, Duke of York, wig wam. This way every reduplication whatever language could become CV jargon as needed since sequential p-ts are more or less inexhaustible.  Over time the feedback loop becomes homeostatic two-way: any linguistic become CV or type and any CV-invention recharging whatever and however many languages far removed.

George Duke wrote on Thu, Dec 29, 2011 04:40 PM UTC:
Hero-Schmero. The core fundamental ones, brilliant Bent Hero and Bent Shaman open new class p-ts, optional sequential, http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSlemurianshatra. Moving as D+W, W+D, W, or D; other one as A+F, F+A, F, or A -- the Joycean inventions. Joe once asked Gilman where they would fit in M&B articles.  The answer is they don't, because there is no sequential piece category yet. There could be untold thousands of other new p-ts just pairing repetitively any two old ones: Knight and Alfil, Wazir and Bishop....  Not compounded but sequed optionally like the bent hero and shaman.  And they all shall be named. In the David Howe ''Concise Guide...'' they constitute subclass of Double Movers because second leg is not enforced. When the piece-type category gets going, Charles in some M&B25(?) can fittingly use *reduplication*.  Grammatically reduplicative, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication), examples: bow-wow, hear-hear!, (suffixed) yum yummy, (second order) hunkie-dunkie, (add-on Yiddish) Santa Schmanta.  Many CV names already use reduplication: Zig Zag, Abracadabra, Hanga Roa, Tutti Frutti Falcon Uti, Ubi-ubi. Still other words exist not accepted CV lingo yet: Killer Diller, Razzle Dazzle, Rowdy Dowdy, Yin Yang (3rd order), spooky wooky.  Any reduplication can become standard CV talk eventually as CV or as piece-type. Okie-dokie, in M&B26 or so the premier duo of the subclass Joyce started formalize to any two of: Hero Schmero Zero, Layman Shaman.  Tip top.

Gary Gifford wrote on Wed, Jan 14, 2009 05:36 PM UTC:
Charles: You wrote under a 'Gryphon Aanca Chess' comment, as follows (which is only a partial quote)

'At last I've rediscovered the variant that uses the Noclaf and Retnuh - you'd have been perfectly entitled to tell me earlier in a comment on Man and Beast 21...'

True, and I would have had I known you were searching for those pieces. But be assured that I was not withholding information. I was ignorant of the fact that there were 21 Man and Beast articles. I only noticed the Noclaf Retnuh comment of yours because I received a 'Gryphon Aanca Chess' e-mail notice of a comment.

I did, moments ago, briefly look through number 21 and was amazed at how much content you have there. Unfortunately they have no selection 'Amazing' in the rating box so I will have to postpone a possible rating. I will go back later and read M and B 21 in its entirety and then possibly read the first Man and Beast and then, perhaps others. Thank you for taking all the time and energy gathering and putting together what looks to be a great amount of piece-related information.


Charles Gilman wrote on Sun, Dec 14, 2008 07:10 AM UTC:
Yes, and I've now corrected it.

John Smith wrote on Sat, Dec 13, 2008 09:07 PM UTC:
Their moves are described in terms of how many individual cells rather than supersquares they move, so that the Sultan's piece moving like 4 Dabbabas yoked together is a SULTAN'S DABBABA rather than a Sultan's Ferz.

Do you mean, 'rather than a Sultan's Wazir'?

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