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KINGDROPS: new game and design goals[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Matteo Perlini wrote on Sun, Sep 23, 2012 12:30 AM UTC:
Hi everybody. This is my first significant contribution to the CV.org community but I read a lot of really interesting pages on here. Now I would like to propose my chess variant. ;-)

I wanted to create a cv that satisfy this main goal: the game should have a big strategic depth. (A minor goal was to keep the normal equipment for facilitating the access to the game for the common man.)

I divided this main goal into three subgoals:
1. big game-tree
2. great clarity, that is easy to look ahead or easy to see down the game tree
3. more global winning conditions

To reach the first subgoal my cv has:
a. multi-move turn
b. not fixed setup
c. drop rule

To reach the second subgoal my cv has
d. pieces with easy-to-visualize-movement
e. short range pieces
f. limited squares where to drop the pieces
g. multi-move with each piece can move just one time per turn

To reach the third subgoal my cv has:
h. besides checkmate, a player can win by getting one of the minor pieces to the last row

I have more and more playtests to do, so probably the rules will change. But I would really like to know your feedbacks on how to improve the game especially about the subgoals I wrote.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the grammar errors. :-)



Kingdrops
by Matteo Perlini


All rules of Orthodox Chess (FIDE Chess) apply, but with the following modification.

MINOR PIECES
4 spearmen: move one square straight forward
4 archers: move one square diagonally forward

MAJOR PIECES
2 rooks: move up to three square orthogonally (no castling)
2 bishops: move up to three square diagonally
2 guards: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
1 queen: move up to two square orthogonally or diagonally
1 king: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space

SETUP
The game begins with an empty board. White player places in his first two rows all the pieces. The order of the pieces is up to the white player.

When White has finished, the same procedure is followed by the black player.

Shown below is a possible configuration after both players have chosen their starting position.



TURN
A player can make up to three moves per turn. He has to do the maximum number of moves available. If he has no move available, he pass.

One move consists in one of the two following actions:
- dropping a new piece in the board from the reserve;
- moving a pieces on the board that it is not moved or dropped in the present turn.

Just one drop per turn is allowed.

EXCHANGE
When a player captures a Spearman, an Archer or the King this piece is permanently removed from the game, but the other pieces go into the opponent's prison.

At the end of the turn, if a player has in his prison a type of piece already present in the opponent's prison (rook and rook; bishop and bishop; guard and guard; or queen and queen), there is the prisoners' exchange: the white piece in the black prison is moved to the white reserve, the black piece in the white prison is moved to the black reserve.
The prisoners' exchange is mandatory and is not a move.

DROPPING
Dropping consists in a player moving a piece from his reserve to the board, placing the piece in a empty square chosen between the eight squares adjacent to the king.

THE KING
- No check or checkmate.
- The king can move into a square under attack.
- The king can be captured like the other pieces.
- If the king is under attack, the player can move it only with the first move.

OBJECTIVE
The winner is the first player who reach one of the two following objectives:
- capturing the opposite king;
- getting the King or a Spearman or an Archer to the last row (the eighth row for the white player and the first one for the black player).

The three times repetition of the same position (considering the pieces on the board and in the reserve) is a loss.

[Rules updated on January 7, 2013]

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Sep 25, 2012 04:08 AM UTC:
I think this looks really interesting. Congrats.

I love the idea of drops having to be placed beside the king, and that
means also you could do 3 drops on one turn, right?

I also like the 'archer' and 'spearman' idea of winning game if
reaching other end, combined with rule if they are captured they are out of
the game. The short range pieces are great for the game too.
When you release, make a game page here please.

Michael Nelson wrote on Tue, Sep 25, 2012 05:44 PM UTC:
Congratulations on a fine first effort, Matteo! The triple move idea is
untried, so far as I know, and will need play testing to see if it makes
the game too explosive. If that is the case, this game should still keep
most of its flavor as a double move variant. (Hope triple move works out, I
really like that.) In any case, a balance rule to reduce the first move
advantage is in order. For a double move game, the rule is well
known--White may make only one move on the first turn. I propose a triple
move analog to that rule: 

On the first turn, White makes one move.
On the first turn, Black makes one or two moves.
On the second turn, White makes one or two moves.
On subsequent turns, the player on move makes one, two, or three moves.

Matteo Perlini wrote on Wed, Sep 26, 2012 10:23 AM UTC:
Hi Christine, thanks.

>>> I love the idea of drops having to be placed beside the king, and that means also you could do 3 drops on one turn, right?

No, the current rule is just 1 drop per turn. I think this create an interesting tension when you have to choose between moving 3 pieces and moving 2 pieces and drop one. If you would have up to 3 drop per turn this tension would be removed from the gameplay. Moreover, I believe multi-drops per turn makes the game too much defensive.

Hi Michael, thanks to you too.

>>> The triple move idea is untried, so far as I know, and will need play testing to see if it makes the game too explosive. If that is the case, this game should still keep most of its flavor as a double move variant. (Hope triple move works out, I really like that.)

I have played too few games for having a reliable opinion, but for now 3-moves per turn seems working well. I think this is made possible by 2 factors: 1) short-range pieces and 2) a piece can move just once. But we will see.

>>> In any case, a balance rule to reduce the first move advantage is in order. For a double move game, the rule is well known--White may make only one move on the first turn. I propose a triple move analog to that rule:
>>> On the first turn, White makes one move. On the first turn, Black makes one or two moves. On the second turn, White makes one or two moves. On subsequent turns, the player on move makes one, two, or three moves.

Balancing the game is where I had/have much to think about. Here I presented the rules in this form because one of my last thought was to try as in Arimaa: proposing the simplest form (without the exceptions for the first turns) hoping the non-fixed setup can neutralize the first move advantage.

I see your proposal as problematic because it gives the advantage to the second player, and this advantage is summed to the advantage given by being the last player in the non-fixed setup.

Maybe a solution can be this: in white's first turn 1 or 2 moves, after that up to 3 moves. This gives a small advantage to white but black has the advantage from the not-fixed setup.

What do you think?

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Wed, Sep 26, 2012 02:21 PM UTC:
Oh yes sorry, i do remember now reading you can only drop one piece per
turn, and yes i think it is best to play this way. 

The game looks really good.

Michael Nelson wrote on Thu, Sep 27, 2012 12:35 AM UTC:
Matteo, I didn't take the fact that Black chooses his arrangement after
White is finished with his into account. My error in not noticing this.
In this case, if any balancing is needed, limiting White to two moves on
the first turn should be quite sufficient. I think my rule is about right
for a triple move game with a) fixed setup b) random setup or c) players
choose setup by placing one piece at a time in turns.

Matteo Perlini wrote on Thu, Sep 27, 2012 02:51 PM UTC:
Christine, thank you for the compliment.  ;-)

Michael, I think it is better to keep the rule as simpler as possible:
keeping the rules without the exception in the first turn. In case, in the
future the two-moves-in-the-white's-first-turn could be added.

>>> I think my rule is about right for a triple move game with a) fixed
setup b) random setup or c) players choose setup by placing one piece at a
time in turns.

With an odd number of moves per turn the perfect balancing is impossible.
Why do you think a 1-move-advantage of black is better than a
1-move-advantage of white?

Rich Hutnik wrote on Thu, Sep 27, 2012 08:37 PM UTC:
I had some comments and questions here:
* Is the reason for no leapers clarity?
* Do you have Zillions?  If not, consider getting it and implementing it in
Zillions to see how both sides play.
* Once you feel more secure about the design, consider having it as a game
entry on the CV site, rather than just a post like this.
* Consider getting it up on Game Courier on the CV site, so you can have
people to playtest it with.

Matteo Perlini wrote on Thu, Sep 27, 2012 11:30 PM UTC:
Hi Rich.  ;-)

Guessed right, my variant has no leapers for clarity. But also for
“elegance” (or, at least, for “how I see elegance and
coherence/harmony”). 

Yes I have Zillions. Now I have to start to study for writing code for it.
I think it will be quite difficult because I have to implement a lot of
features: restricted dropping rule, 3-moves per turn, arrangement phase,
exchanging rule and multi-objectives. Too much! But I will try.  :-)

Matteo Perlini wrote on Fri, Sep 28, 2012 02:37 AM UTC:
For now I found those 2 problems in the implementation of Kingdrops:

1. no piece can move more than once per turn: I have found a solution for
2-moves per turn ("verify not-last-to?") but I'm without solution for my
3-moves per turn

2. how can I restrict the dropping zone to the king's 8 adjacent squares?

3. the king has to get out of check in the fist move... but how? (maybe
this is impossible in zillions?)

Michael Nelson wrote on Sat, Sep 29, 2012 03:08 AM UTC:
I've been corresponding with Matteo about programming this most
interesting game, but I thought I would share with the Zillions programmers
among the CV community. I have solved the first problem: rather than using
last-to? (which would allow the movement of the same piece on the first and
third moves of a turn) I set a has-moved attribute for the piece whenever
it moves, and verify that this attribute is clear before allowing the
move.
After each turn (three moves), I have a random player scan the board and
clear all has-moved attributes, so that all pieces can move freely on the
next turn. This technique will work for any number of multiple moves.

The drops restriction will require a board scan to find the friendly King.

Matteo Perlini wrote on Mon, Jan 7, 2013 02:44 PM UTC:
I have updated the rules of KingDrops.

Unlucky I'm not able to implement the "exchanging rule" in Zillions language. Someone can help me about?



Kingdrops
by Matteo Perlini


All rules of Orthodox Chess (FIDE Chess) apply, but with the following modification.

PIECES
4 spearmen: move one square straight forward
4 archers: move one square diagonally forward
2 rooks: move up to three square orthogonally (no castling)
2 bishops: move up to three square diagonally
2 guards: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space
1 queen: move up to two square orthogonally or diagonally
1 king: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space

SETUP
The game begins with an empty board. White player places in his first two rows all the pieces. The order of the pieces is up to the white player.

When White has finished, the same procedure is followed by the black player.

TURN
A player can make up to three moves per turn. He has to do the maximum number of moves available. If he has no move available, he pass.

One move consists in one of the two following actions:
- dropping a new piece in the board from the reserve;
- moving a pieces on the board that it is not moved or dropped in the present turn.

Just one drop per turn is allowed.

EXCHANGE
When a player captures a Spearman, an Archer or the King this piece is permanently removed from the game, but the other pieces go into the opponent's prison.

At the end of the turn, if a player has in his prison a type of piece already present in the opponent's prison (rook and rook; bishop and bishop; guard and guard; or queen and queen), there is the prisoners' exchange: the white piece in the black prison is moved to the white reserve, the black piece in the white prison is moved to the black reserve.
The prisoners' exchange is mandatory and is not a move.

DROPPING
Dropping consists in a player moving a piece from his reserve to the board, placing the piece in a empty square chosen between the eight squares adjacent to the king.

THE KING
- No check or checkmate.
- The king can move into a square under attack.
- The king can be captured like the other pieces.
- If the king is under attack, the player can move it only with the first move.

OBJECTIVE
The winner is the first player who reach one of the two following objectives:
- capturing the opposite king;
- getting the King or a Spearman or an Archer to the last row (the eighth row for the white player and the first one for the black player).

The three times repetition of the same position (considering the pieces on the board and in the reserve) is a loss.

[Rules updated on January 7, 2013]

Matteo Perlini wrote on Tue, Jan 29, 2013 05:47 PM UTC:
Hello everybody!

Finally I can post the Zillions file of KingsDrop: KingsDrop.

Unlucky I was not able to perfectly implement the "exchanging rule", sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Someone can help me, please?


Below it is the last version of the rules. I think now they are more organic and simpler. (Maybe someone have noticed the small change of the name of the game. Eheh.)

I really interested in this my project, so I need your feedbacks. Please let me know your opinions.


KingsDrop
by Matteo Perlini


All rules of Orthodox Chess (FIDE Chess) apply, but with the following modification.

PIECES
4 Spearmen: move one square straight forward or sidewards
4 Archers: move one square diagonally forward
2 Rooks: like FIDE Rooks but they move up to three square orthogonally (no castling)
2 Bishops: like FIDE Bishops but they move up to three square diagonally
2 Queens: like FIDE Queens but they move up to two square orthogonally or diagonally
2 Kings: move to any orthogonally or diagonally adjacent space

SETUP
The game begins with an empty board. White player places in his first two rows all the pieces. The order of the pieces is up to White.

When White has finished, the same procedure is followed by the Black.

TURN
A player can make up to three moves per turn. He has to do the maximum number of moves available. If he has no move available, he pass.

One move consists in one of the two following actions:
- dropping a new piece in the board from the reserve;
- moving a pieces on the board that it is not moved or dropped in the present turn.

Just one drop per turn is allowed.

EXCHANGE
When a player captures a Spearman, an Archer or a King, this piece is permanently removed from the game; but the other pieces (Bishop, Rook and Queen) go into the opponent's prison.

At the end of the turn, if a player has in his prison a type of piece already present in the opponent's prison (Rook and Rook; Bishop and Bishop; or Queen and Queen), there is the prisoners' exchange: the white piece in the black prison is moved to the white reserve, the black piece in the white prison is moved to the black reserve.
The prisoners' exchange is mandatory and it is not considered a move.

DROPPING
Dropping consists in moving a piece from own reserve to the board, placing the piece in an empty square adjacent to one of the Kings.

THE KINGS
- No check or checkmate.
- The King can move into a square under attack.
- The King can be captured like the other pieces.

OBJECTIVE
The winner is the first player who reach one of the two following objectives:
- capturing one of the two opposite Kings;
- getting a Spearman or an Archer to the last row (the eighth row for the white player and the first one for the black player).

The three times repetition of the same position (considering the pieces on the board and in the reserve) is a loss.

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