Check out Symmetric Chess, our featured variant for March, 2024.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

LatestLater Reverse Order Earlier
ZigZag Madness. Featuring the crooked dual path sliders: the ZigZag Bishop and the ZigZag Rook. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
John Smith wrote on Fri, Nov 21, 2008 12:12 AM UTC:
I'd like to see an (incorrectly or loosely) Ironic Chess. Anybody up?

Larry Smith wrote on Fri, Nov 21, 2008 12:02 AM UTC:
A little more etymology of zigzag.

It originates in the German as zickzack. Which is a compound of zickig and zack. Meaning awkward move.

This has been the most fun that I've had in days. Let's pick another word to examine. ;-)

Joe Joyce wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 11:58 PM UTC:
Lol, I don't know if the first word in ZigZag Madness is strictly accurate, but the the title as a whole is, based on the comments here! :-D

John Smith wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 11:49 PM UTC:
I don't understand why they can't move to adjacent squares. Is this supposed to make them on par with their non-zigzag counterparts? Also, you got my hopes up of someone using Ralph's Zigzags, which are the same as crooked pieces, but move two steps after each turn instead of one.

Larry Smith wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 11:14 PM UTC:
Okay, let's try a visual representation.

A zigzag pattern: /\/\/\/\/\/\

A zigzag step: /\

If you notice that this is a full step of those which make up the pattern.

But here's another zigzag pattern:

    /\
   /\/\
  /\/\/\
 /\/\/\/\

Of which /\ is a full step. Representing a nexus point of divergence.

Please try and comprehend that a zigzag is a turn or angle, just as a turn or angle can be a zigzag. Though zigzag has often been used to describe a continuing pattern of zigzagging, that is not its absolute definition.

In the South, they refer to a pattern which continued one angle past a simple zigzag step as a 'dog leg'. Interesting how they also incorporated two three-letter words which ended in 'g'. :-)

H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 10:57 PM UTC:
The way I read the second definition, 'one such turn', it means 'one of the set'. So there must be a zigzag motion consisting of at least two turns in opposite directions, and only then one can refer to one of those turns as a zigzag in the second sense. That is, IMO, what the 'such' means. It does not only refer to 'sharp' (otherwise meaning 2 could have said 'one shapr turn'), it does refer to the entire first definition.

Larry Smith wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 08:34 PM UTC:
I stand upon a point from which I can choose several directions to move. I choose one direction, this is the first or 'zig'. Then having taken that direction, I now choose another or 'zag'.

I think you are confusing the zigzag pattern(or repetitive series of zigzag steps) to the simple zigzag step.

Check out the second definition of the noun version of this word at this site:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zigzag

What about the concept of 'forked'? Which fulfils the French definition of zigzag.

Sharp has nothing to do with the degree of the angle but with abrupt shift involved. A non-sharp turn would actually become an arc, though it can be tight it may not be considered 'sharp'.

I love etymology. I can talk about it all day. ;-)

H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 08:10 PM UTC:
Going from one direction to another is only a single 'turn'. One could even argue if this turn would qualify as 'sharp', (which seems hardly fitting for a 135-degree angle), but that seems nitpicking. Nevertheless, the dictionary definition requires a first and a second turn.

The archetypal lightning bolt has at least two sharp turns in it. With only one turn, no one would recognize it as a lightning bolt; people would see it as a letter V or an arrow head.

It seems you are pretty much trying to argue that 1 equals 2 here...

Larry Smith wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 07:20 PM UTC:
The ZigZag Bishop and Zigzag Rook both fulfil the definition of zigzag.

'1. a line, course, or progression characterized by sharp turns first to one side and then to the other.'

The ZigZag Bishop can begin with a diagonal move then change to an orthogonal move. Or start with an orthogonal then change to a diagonal.

The ZigZag Rook can begin with an orthogonal move then change to a diagonal move. Or start with a diagonal then change to an orthogonal.

Even if they only perform two direction shifts, this follows the concept of zig and zag. The word zigzag comes from the French which is often used to describe 'forked' events such as lightning. Which is actually a splitting of the path. Which both of these pieces do.

So this argument about semantics is pointless.

But I can see how someone who has previously proposed a zigzag piece might feel a bit put upon. But are these piece exact replicas? I do not believe so. Just think of them as a homage and continuation of the concept.

Claudio Martins Jaguaribe wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 04:30 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Again!!

I liked it!

But, looks to me that is a template, as the snake. A template that can be applied to the various atoms and generals.

1 step in the divergent direction followed by 2 in the main direction, or the reverse, it can be applied to the man, the generals (again), and the Z family.

Hugs!

H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 04:25 PM UTC:
It seems your use of the word zigzag is at odds with the definition in the dictionary, quoted below. The latter clearly specifies the need for multiple angles in the trajectory, while your pieces have only one:

zig⋅zag 
noun, adjective, adverb, verb, -zagged, -zag⋅ging. 
–noun 
1. a line, course, or progression characterized by sharp turns first to one side and then to the other. 
2. one of a series of such turns, as in a line or path. 
–adjective 
3. proceeding or formed in a zigzag: zigzag stitches.  
–adverb 
4. with frequent sharp turns from side to side; in a zigzag manner: The child ran zigzag along the beach.  
–verb (used with object) 
5. to make (something) zigzag, as in form or course; move or maneuver (something) in a zigzag direction: They zigzagged their course to confuse the enemy.  
–verb (used without object) 
6. to proceed in a zigzag line or course.

💡📝Charles Daniel wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 02:56 PM UTC:
It IS a crooked slider and it is a zig zag motion as most people UNFAMILIAR with these pieces will understand it. 

e.g  One step orthogonal (zig) followed by two or more diagonally (zag) ..



Apparently you are just interested in semantics.

Anonymous wrote on Thu, Nov 20, 2008 12:56 PM UTC:BelowAverage ★★
Argh. Neither are the introduced exotic pieces 'crooked' in the sense
used commonly here, nor are they particularly new. They aren't zig-zag
neither. 

Look at Renniassance Chess (yes, the spelling is intentional) on this
server for the Duke and the Cavallier and look up the 'Crooked Bishop'
in the piecoclopedia. 

--JKn

13 comments displayed

LatestLater Reverse Order Earlier

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.