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Grand Chess. Christian Freeling's popular large chess variant on 10 by 10 board. Rules and links. (10x10, Cells: 100) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Anonymous wrote on Tue, Jan 2, 2001 12:00 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★I'd rate both the site and the game as excellent, the site because the comments at the top prompted me to try the game, which has become my preferred form of chess. I haven't seen a zillions file for this; I wrote one myself which works fine except for the limited promotion rule -- given the current Zillions language, FIDE type promtion to any piece is easy, promotion restricted to previously captured pieces would be tedious to code.
nerd wrote on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 06:54 PM UTC:Poor ★All versions of chess are lame except for bughouse.
Excellent game; unlike most other Chess variants there is actually some analysis of the game out there. Not only does <A href=http://www.abstractgamesmagazine.com>Abstract Games Magazine</A> have a regular column on it, but the current Grand Chess world champion has an annotated game (<A href=http://www.mindsports.net/Arena/GrandChess/WorldChampionship/2001/Finals/GCCWC2001-GameVS-Comments.zip>Word format</A>; <A href=http://www.samiam.org/grandchess/2001-VS.pdf>PDF format with diagrams</A>) which discusses opening and mid-game strategy.
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The game is a lot more sharp and tactical than FIDE Chess. Since the opening only has pieces on 40% of the board (as opposed to FIDE's 50%), it is harder to set up a closed position difficult to break in to. If you like playing quiet, strategic games, Grand Chess may not be for you.
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Then again, if you long for another golden age of Chess, of the likes of when Morphy or Capablanca was world champion, this is an excellent game. Draws are less common in this game; stong attacks on the enemey king and sacrifices are common.
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Of course, this is a game that computers can also play well; The Zillions engine was able to defeat an Interational Master (2500 range) at Grand Chess, even though the same engine is about a 1900 player in FIDE chess. Since very few people can defeat a strong computer these days, this should not matter for anyone except the strongest of players.
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- Sam
John Vehre wrote on Sat, Jan 11, 2003 01:55 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★I have played in two Grand Chess competitions and can highly recommend
both the game and the organizers at mindsports.net who now have held three
cyber world championship events. Grand Chess combines good ideas from
both east and west. It is fast paced like classical chess and the long
range pieces have considerable striking power. The promotion rules and set
up remind one more of Shogi and these same promotion rules tend to reduce
the number of draws. If you could reach such an endgame almost all basic
pawn up king and pawn vs. king endgames are wins unless the weaker side
can capture the pawn and even the notoriously tough Rook and pawn endings
should also be easier for the stronger side. Of course saving a bad
position is much tougher!
Classical chess playing skills also translate well in this variant and
a good chess player most likely also will quickly become a good Grand
Chess player. The mindsports site provides boards to play the game with on
their server and postal chess players tired of computer interference in
their games ought to give this variant serious consideration.
The only criticism I have of the game is that perhaps a piece
arrangement more like Duninho's (spelling?) variation of Capablanca's
Chess
with the Cardinal on b2, the minor pieces Queen and King moved in towards
the center and with the Marshall placed on i2 might be a more efficient
piece arrangement. I have also experimented at the Dayton Ohio Chess Club
with some friends with adding a king's leap of three squares which seems
to work well with this alternate piece arrangement. Maybe an addition
that might be considered for the Zillions engine?John, Do you mean the second rank would be - C N B Q K B N M - ? And this King's leap of three squares, I suppose that's a one-time move? Is it limited any other way, for instance does it have to be made along a rank, can it be made while in check or over checked squares, etc.?
John Vehre? Where did you disappear to? Waaaaaaay back when we were playing a friendly Gothic Chess match via email, you had me on the ropes, then one fine day your email bounced! I am at [email protected] now, FYI. Hope to chat with you later. --Ed
John Vehre wrote on Sat, Feb 22, 2003 07:10 PM UTC:I guess I should have looked at this sooner since there were two quick follow up comments. For Mark the King's leap is in fact a one time option like Castling and subject to similar restrictions. You can not leap out of check nor can the king cross any squares attacked by enemy pieces. My interpretation of the leap has been to used it to simply make a jump left or right along the 2nd rank. My suggested array would be in fact RCNBQKBNMR with the rooks still being on the 1st rank and the rest on the 2nd rank as in standard Grand Chess. The advantage of the new array is the minor pieces are more centrally located and can better attack the center. The Marshall and Cardinal are decentralized but they can more easily get into the fight again than the bishop and particularly the knight can in the standard array for Grand Chess. For Ed my email is now [email protected], and I will see if I can drop you an email again. Gothic Chess is also very interesting and the Duniho option is worth exploring here as well, and can be played with the Zillions Engine for those interested.
Sometimes I've idly wondered whether the Knight should simply be replaced with a piece that jumps further, such as a Zebra (a (2,3) jumper). The rationale would be that a piece that travels faster should be more relevant to play on the decimal board. Of course, that would violate the spirit of Grand Chess, in Freeling's idea of having a piece for each 'basic move' (N, B, R) and each combination of two basic moves (N+R=M, N+B=Q, B+N=C). Anyone have any thoughts on whether 'Zebrine Grand Chess' would be worthwhile?
David Short wrote on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 03:54 AM UTC:Good ★★★★Grandchess is one of several chess variants which can be played by email
through Richard's Play By Email Server at http://www.gamerz.net/pbmserv/
<p>I have organized tournaments of several other CVs on Richard's PBM server
in the past, mainly Doublechess and Omegachess. I could easily organize
and run a Grandchess email tournament on Richard's PBM site if I thought
there was enough interest. Remember, you would need to have an existing
userid on the server to play. If you do not have one, you can easily
sign up for a free account. To find out how, go to the front page listed
above and click on the TUTORIAL link near the bottom of the page.
<p>Anyway, if you would like to see me run a Grandchess tournament on
Richard's server please either post a message here in this chain
or email me at [email protected] and if I sense there is a sufficient
amount of interest I may very well do it.
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Lim Ther Peng wrote on Fri, Apr 25, 2003 08:12 AM UTC:Good ★★★★This game is better than chess.Good work!
the link to freeling's grandchess page is broken. the site was redone last summer, so stuff was probably moved around at that time. i don't have the correct url handy.
Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Jul 19, 2003 07:45 AM UTC:Mark Thompson's idea of Zebrine Grand Chess need not violate the rule of each combination of two elementals, as the Zebra move could replace the Knight move as a component of the compound pieces as well as on its own. I have some ideas for naming such pieces if anyone is interested.
Grand Chess design analysis: # squares: 100 # piece types: 8 Piece-type density: 8% Est. piece values: P1, K2, N3, B3, R5, C8, M9, Q10 Initial piece density: 40% Long diagonal: a1-j10 Power density: 1.22 Exchange gradient: 0.450; (1-G) = 0.550 Ave. game length: M = 3.5*100*0.08/1.22*0.55 = 42 Moves Features: All the B-N-R two-fold compounds appear Comments: Great exchange potential and relatively few types of pieces keep a decimal variant under 45-move average.
I've suggested in the forum that the Games Courier might implement a 'The World Against ...' system, whereby a champion at some variant would play White and everyone else plays Black. 'The World' can use a public forum to discus possible lines of play and could vote (in a strict time-span) on which move to make. Grand Chess would be a good game to investigate this way, because Mindsports Arena has held tournaments some years back, so it has recognized champions: Wayne Schmittberger and John Vehre. Either 'The World Against Vehre' or 'The World Against Schmittberger' would be great fun, I think, if either party could be enlisted for it.
📝Greg Strong wrote on Fri, Mar 25, 2005 09:55 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★A fantastic variant, and my favorite variant on a decimal board. I think placing the pawns on the third rank, rather than the second, is important for decimal variants to get the game moving and interesting before dozens of moves have past. Even giving second-rank pawns a triple-space initial move still doesn't seem to accomplish the this. Omega Chess games, for example, seem to take forever to develop to a level with noticeable tension. Grand Chess also allows pawns to promote on the 8th rank, as in Mecklenbeck Chess, and this provides additional tension without making the game so dynamic that it hard to visualize. Finally, giving the back rank to the Rooks reduces or eliminates the need for castling, and I consider this a very good thing, too.
Some people has critiziced the initial setup. Others think that the Pawns in third rank and majority of bigger pieces in second is not the best idea. I strongly disagree, this game is excellent, and much more: for me, it is one of the best decimal variants ever made. The measures: the beauty, deepness and interest of an average game. Superb.
Play Christian Freeling's Grand Chess on BrainKing :-)
The editors received the following message by e-mail from Namig Aliyev: Dear sir! I would like send to You some comments about Grand Chess. 1.'Fool mat' in classic chess is 1.f4 -e6 2.g4 -Qh4x -2 moves 2.In Capablanca chess for opening set up like this (Optimal set up,all pawns protekted,force line of pieces very good balanced)-R-N-B-A-C-K-Q-B-N-R, 'fool mat' is 1.c3 -h5 2.Ac2 -f6 3.Ag6x -3 moves 3.In Grand Chess for opening set up -3rd row pawns,2nd row from square b2 -N-B-A-C-K-Q-B-N, 1st row Ra1 and Rj1 (this variant more preferable,because white king snand up in dark square and vice versa) 'fool mat 'is 1.c4 -Rjg10 2.Ac3 -Rae10 3.Cf4 -Af10 4.Nh4 -h7 5.Ag7x -5 moves These examples shows us in Grand Chess a king is more safety position then in Capablanca or Classic Chess. P.S.I think all rules in Grand Chess is very interesting and good. But if we make one exceptoin it will be better. Rule:A pawn can be promoted when it reaches 9th row. The promotion is optional on these rows. In this case I think many chess fun and players will be joined to this beatiful game. With best regards, FIDE Master,FIDE Trainer Namik
this game is a classic
I found a faster Fool's mate than the one published in Tony Quintanilla's comment.
Joe Joyce wrote on Thu, Jul 5, 2007 03:49 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★The annoying promotion/pawn move rule is the only thing that prevents this game from being practically perfect. I'd suggest that pawns can move to the back rank even if they can't promote, and be allowed to move sideways along the back rank 1 square per move, capturing as they go. Reversals of direction would be allowed. I lean toward allowing a pawn to move, possibly capturing on the move, and then promote when the opportunity presents itself, as well as just promote in situ when a piece becomes available. In this scheme, promotion would not be required as soon as a piece became available.
Joe Joyce wrote on Sat, Jul 7, 2007 12:16 AM UTC:After posting my previous comment on Grand Chess, I received an email from Michael Howe [Nova Chess and others], who has been working on the pawn promotion/movement problem in his work. With permission, I present the relevant body of the text: [A pawn] 'can move to the back rank even when no previously captured piece is available, and while there it moves like a nonroyal king (commoner). If it moves out of the promotion zone it reverts to pawn. If it moves within the promotion zone it gets another chance to promote. A player can also move into or within the promotion zone and choose the commoner option instead of a piece promotion even if a piece is available: for example, in a situation when a commoner would mate but a cardinal or marshal would not. No in-situ promotion. I think this works better than a sideways-moving pawn because it is more threatening, although I doubt that this situation will come up much'. As I use the scheme I proposed in both Grand Shatranj and Atlantean Barroom Shatranj, I am adding this option to both games.
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