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Game Courier Tournament #1. A multi-variant tournament played on Game Courier.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 01:29 PM UTC:
Yes, considering that Michael Howe was the first-place winner of the previous multivariant tournament, I gather that he was a formidable opponent and that not playing against him was an appreciable advantage for many people. It was to counteract some of the effects of this advantage that I decided to count any automatically won unplayed game against him as one in which you moved first.

Antoine Fourrière wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 04:12 AM UTC:
Oops! I was indeed unaware of that rule. But I'm going to claim a draw
myself at next move if Carlos repeats the position, since my only
voluntary retreat from perpetual check would be a loss. (Or would that be
unethical from me now? Please, don't comment on the position itself.)

I do not mind playing as Black in my two remaining games, especially
considering the fact that Michael Howe's withdrawal has spared me the
obligation to play a game I do not like (Cavalier Chess - sorry, Fergus)
against a good player.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 03:22 AM UTC:
Fergus, I have said that it was, perhaps, an additional reason for alerting a drawn condition in the PMC game, but I´m not cathegorical on this, it was only a bad thought expressed with some class of humour, if you can consider it as some class of humour. Going to the facts, the current game is a draw according to the rules, but if it does not apply for any reason, Antoine´s position is clearly better. With a draw in this game, it is possible, at least in my opinion, that the first place in the Tournament can be decided in the Alice game of the next round, but this is not a certain fact, there are more games to play, and all can still happen. In every case, good luck to everybody, this Tournament is great regardless the results, and I only expect to see very interesting and enjoyable games in the last round. Nice!

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 12:41 AM UTC:
Mike Nelson has it right. I don't understand what reason Roberto suggested I had in mind for alerting Antoine and Carlos about their 3-times repetition and the applicable rule.

Michael Nelson wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 12:21 AM UTC:
I think the real issue is to alert the players to the fact that a drawn
game has in fact been achieved so the game can be concluded and the final
round started.

It is evident that both players were suffering from the same misperception
of the PMC draw rules. Carlos had earlier posted an inquiry to the PM page
about a perpetual check draw. I answered him that the rule was the same as
in FIDE--perpetual check is not a draw per se, but always leads to triple
repetion or the fifty-move rule (virtaully always the former).

It is self evident that Carlos intended to achieve a draw--Antoine has a
won game absent the perpetual check--therefor he must have been unaware
that he has done so.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Sep 19, 2004 10:56 PM UTC:
In the last two rounds, the privilege of moving first was given evenly, so
that you would have it as many times as you didn't have it. Since there
are a total of 11 games to play for those of us who played Michael Howe,
we can't all play equally as many games as the first player as the
second. So, in the last round, here is how who moves first will be
decided:

1) The player with the lower total score so far will move first.

2) When players have equal scores, whoever has moved first in fewer games
will move first. For these purposes, any game automatically won against
Michael Howe without actually playing against him will count as a game in
which you moved first.

3) If there is still a tie, the other tiebreaking methods will be used in
the same order they would be for deciding the winner. Whoever loses the
tiebreak would go first. [No ties were left unresolved by the prior
rule.]

4) Exceptions will be made to make sure that no one moves first in fewer
than five games and in more than seven. An average of five to six would
have been enforced, but counting any unplayed game against Michael Howe as
a game in which you moved first raises the total number of games in which
each remaining person in the contest moved first.

With these conditions in mind, here is who will play whom in each game,
with the first player listed first:

Alice Chess

Fergus Duniho vs. Antoine Fourriere
Tony Quintanilla vs. Michael Madsen
Mark Thompson vs. Thomas McElmurry

Anti-King Chess II

Carlos Carlos vs. Fergus Duniho
Roberto Lavieri vs. Antoine Fourriere
Mark Thompson vs. Ben Good
Michael Madsen vs. Mike Nelson [exception]

Cavalier Chess

Carlos Carlos vs. Roberto Lavieri
Ben Good vs. Fergus Duniho
Mike Nelson vs. Gary Gifford
Tony Quintanilla vs. Mark Thompson [exception]

Maxima

Gary Gifford vs. Roberto Lavieri
Ben Good vs. Thomas McElmurry

Takeover Chess

Thomas McElmurry vs. Carlos Carlos [exception]
Michael Madsen vs. Gary Gifford
Mike Nelson vs. Tony Quintanilla

I think this was the fairest way to decide who goes first in each game,
but if Antoine thinks it will be fairer for him to move first in our game
of Alice Chess, given that he would be moving first in fewer actual games
than anyone else, I'm willing to allow it. This is not because I doubt
the fairness of this method, but only because it might appear unfair, and
if I defeat Antoine and win the tournament, I don't want anyone to think
I did it by manipulating the tournament.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sun, Sep 19, 2004 09:42 PM UTC:
I think Fergus and Michael are right, and the discussion on PMC rules is also important in the context of the First Game Courier Tournament, obviously. If the current game object of the discussion is an Antoine´s victory, the method used for ties can permiss Antoine be the winner inclusive if he loses one game in the last round and wins in the rest. With a draw, the first place championship is still disputed, and theoretically Fergus, Antoine, Gary and me have still chances, although in my opinion, the Alice game of the next round is going to be the decisive for the first place, I have to play two of three games in the next round that are not comfortable for me (I´m a bad player in both, I think), and I can lose both, and in Maxima, the third, well, I´m experienced, but Gary is a very good player, so all can happen, and I can not bet one penny for me for the first place in the Tournament. This is perhaps one of the reasons of Fergus insistance on the rules, isn´t it?.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Sep 19, 2004 09:01 PM UTC:
Antoine, the rules for PMC begin by saying 'All FIDE Chess rules apply except as follows:'. None of the rules of PMC state any exception to the 3-times repetition rule of Chess. Only one rule of PMC states any exception to any drawing condition of FIDE Chess. It says, 'The game is drawn if fifty consecutive moves have elapsed without a capture or a promotion.' This is just a modification to the 50-moves rule of FIDE Chess to account for promotions. It does not state that these are the only drawing conditions for the game. The 'if' in the rule is just an 'if', not an 'only if'. This rule can be accurately reworded as 'If fifty consecutive moves have elapsed without a capture or a promotion, then the game is drawn.' Therefore, the 3-times repetition rule of FIDE Chess is one of the rules of PMC, and either of you has the right to declare your game a draw.

Michael Nelson wrote on Sun, Sep 19, 2004 08:09 AM UTC:
This is a misinterpretation of Rule 8 of PMC. Triple repetition is a draw,
just as in FIDE Chess--per rule Zero, all FIDE rules apply except as
contardicetd by the given rules. PMC has a differnt 50-move rule because
the essence of the 50 move rule is irretractable change--and a pawn move
in not unretractable in PMC. Triple repetition is the same as in FIDE,
therefor it isn't stated explictily in the PMC rules.

The game in question is indeed a draw if the player to move chooses to
claim it.

Antoine Fourrière wrote on Sun, Sep 19, 2004 12:05 AM UTC:
Unfortunately, you can call a draw at PMC only after 50 moves without
capture or promotion, so maybe one or both players are simply taking time
to think. Still, a general rule that third repetition is a draw unless the
game rules specify it to be a loss or a win might be welcome for GCT #2.
Anyway, I'm all for starting Round 3.

Mark Thompson wrote on Sat, Sep 18, 2004 11:51 PM UTC:
--

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Sep 18, 2004 10:45 PM UTC:
The second round is almost finished. Only one game remains, and either player could call a draw by invoking the 3-times repetition rule, since the same positions have repeated at least 3 times and are continuing to repeat. So expect the third round to start soon.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Jun 23, 2004 03:18 AM UTC:
I have just finished assigning all the games for the second round of the
tournament. Because some people are playing only three games this round,
not everyone is moving first exactly twice and second exactly twice. Here
is how I determined who would go first in each game. First, I arranged it
so that whoever had won fewer games would go first. I then applied the
following rule: No one could move first in more than two games, and no one
could move second in more than two games. This involved switching the order
of some opponents in a way that worked out consistently for everyone. As
much as possible, any discrepencies will be made up in the last round, so
that each player moves first and second in an equal number of games.

I got preferences for Kamikaze Mortal Shogi graphics from one player for
each scheduled game. My opponent shared my own preferences, but for the
other three games, only one player apiece gave preferences. So those are
the ones I went with.

All games but Maxima are being played with presets that enforce the rules.
It is fitting that Antoine is playing the only game of Takeover Chess in
this round, since he wrote the code for enforcing the rules of this game.
If there are any bugs in the Takeover Chess preset, it will normally be
his responsibility to fix them, not mine. But it would be best to contact
both of us about any bugs in that preset, since a given bug might be in
Game Courier's code instead of in Antoine's.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Jun 21, 2004 11:25 PM UTC:
The third paragraph in my last comment describes an application of the
provision I included in the first paragraph under 'Pairings', which
reads 'If any two players both win the same game against other opponents,
and they have not played each other yet, they may choose to play that game
together instead of what they were previously scheduled to play.'

Since I have decided to go with the first option, anyone who has not yet
played against Michael Howe is considered to have won his game against him
without playing it.

Thomas McElmurry wrote on Mon, Jun 21, 2004 05:02 AM UTC:
Fergus, I'm confused by the third paragraph of your latest comment. Are you proposing a third alternative or merely suggesting some games that could be played outside the tournament?

Mark Thompson wrote on Sun, Jun 20, 2004 07:35 PM UTC:
I would be the only person Michael Howe has beaten, and so I think that means I'm the only person who would theoretically be disadvantaged by Fergus's first alternative. So let me remark, for the sake of making the decision easier, that I have no objection to Fergus's first alternative. I'm trying to win my games, of course, or at least to draw, but I'm in the tournament for fun.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Jun 20, 2004 06:55 PM UTC:
Michael Howe has quit the tournament. The most straightforward way of
proceeding would be to declare him the loser in all his remaining games
without anyone actually playing any of them. It seems that this option may
give an unfair advantage to anyone who hasn't played him yet, though,
since he has won only one game, this would materially affect the score of
only one player.

A second option would be to not count any of his games toward scoring.
This would put everyone on a level playing field against each other. It
would also set a precedent of doing the same for anyone else who quits. It
may seem innocuous right now, given that doing it right now would make a
material difference for only one player, but if someone else quit after
playing more games, it might not seem like such a fair thing to do.

I think that some of the unfairness in the first option may be mitigated
by the following consideration. It gives people who haven't yet played
against Michael Howe the option of playing the game they were scheduled to
play with him against someone else who has already won the game in this
tournament. Although someone who has beaten him at a game will have to
play and win one more game to score just as well as someone who hasn't
played against him, someone who has beaten him has better odds of being
the better player for the particular game he has beaten him at.

Whichever option we go with, there is also the possibility of reassigning
some games before we continue. This may be desirable for those who were
assigned to play Michael Howe for one of their top choices. If you
haven't played Michael Howe yet, and you're interested in a reassignment
of your remaining games, please contact me with the change you would like
made.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Fri, Jun 18, 2004 04:39 PM UTC:
Well, Ben would rather wait till the first round ends. I think Ben and Michael are playing an interesting game of Kamikaze Mortal Shogi, and in my opinion both are good players, so, very probably, this game is not going to be finished soon!. It means that the second round must wait...

Ben Good wrote on Tue, Jun 15, 2004 04:15 PM UTC:
i would rather wait til the first round ends

Mark Thompson wrote on Tue, Jun 15, 2004 02:39 AM UTC:
Fine with me.

carlos carlos wrote on Mon, Jun 14, 2004 01:33 PM UTC:
sure

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Jun 14, 2004 12:03 AM UTC:
If Ben and the two players of the other ongoing game agree, then I will start the second round before the first round ends.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on Sun, Jun 13, 2004 09:26 PM UTC:
Fergus, I doubt the second round is going to begin at the end of this month, The game of Kamikaze Mortal Shogi that are playing Michael Howe and Ben Good may last many moves more, probably, and it is possible it is not going to finish as soon as you think.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Jun 4, 2004 02:38 PM UTC:
The first round is now down to two unfinished games. So odds are good that the second round will be starting sometime this month. I plan to focus this second round on the variants that are most likely to take longest to play. These would be the large variants plus Chessgi, because its drops may extend the duration of the game. By grouping these games together in the second round, it should help the third round go more quickly.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, May 22, 2004 09:50 PM UTC:
The clocks will not be stopped for anyone under any circumstances. They were not designed to be stopped, and stopping them would defeat the purpose of using them. If I were to stop clocks, we may as well not use clocks at all and just play untimed games. The purpose behind timing games in the tournament is to keep the tournament as a whole from dragging on too long. This affects everyone in the tournament, not just those who can't play for a while and their opponents. Besides this, I designed the time controls to allow for the very sort of thing that has come up with Mark Thompson. He has already accumulated a good amount of reserve time in his remaining two games, and the very purpose of giving reserve time is to give a player the freedom to stop playing when emergency situations like this arise.

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