Check out Grant Acedrex, our featured variant for April, 2024.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

Earlier Reverse Order Later
[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
James Spratt wrote on Sat, Jul 1, 2006 12:38 PM UTC:
While we're on the subject of graphic icons for chess variant pieces, and
I have volunteered to draw up some new ones for various games, it seems
like a good time to solicit some input from users regarding features that
might make the pieces more enjoyable.  This might be hard to do, to
describe theoretical pictograms, but some aspects that could be
universally applied, such as representationalism, abstraction, coloration,
and--what else?--might be definable enough to serve as guidelines prior to
taking pen in hand to draw.  Thoughts, anyone?

Fergus, Christine, thanks for your ameliorative efforts; I can get too
close to things sometimes.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Jul 1, 2006 12:56 PM UTC:
The two most important features of any piece set are recognizability and
beauty. To be recognizable, a piece image should make sense, usually by
meeting expectations for what a piece of that kind should look like, and
it should be clearly distinguishable from the other pieces. Using a simple
style can make it easier to distinguish pieces from each other. Bold lines
and monochromatic coloring are good for this. Monochromatic coloring also
makes it easier to tell one side from the other. The beauty of the set as
a whole is enhanced by consistency of style.

Joe Joyce wrote on Sat, Jul 1, 2006 05:50 PM UTC:
I would like to add one lesser attribute. If the pieces could somehow
represent the moves they make, that would be nice. For example, the
squirrel move is a combo of the alfil, dabbabah, and knight. Of course, my
current example of that piece looks like Dumbo on wheels, complete with
pillbox circus hat. But I believe the idea is a good one. I don't
recommend pieces like those in Navia Dratp, where the moves are shown
schematically on the piece base, but the use of common symbols combined
[hopefully better than Dumbo on wheels] in an artful manner would make it
a lot easier [certainly for me] to concentrate on the game, and not keep
having to look up piece moves [I play bad enough], which is very
distracting; or worse, mistake one piece for another. Some games [like
Postal Chess] or piece sets [like the Pizza Kings] need unique themed
pieces, but this is much more the exception than the rule.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 02:47 AM UTC:
well i like pieces indicating moves too, but as Fergus said, graphics
should be functional and possess beauty, and if we go crazy trying to get
every piece to indicate where it goes, i think that takes away from the
beauty aspect. We don't care for 'indicators' on the rook, knight,
bishop and queen etc, and well, as far as alfaerie graphics go, for
instance, the 'squirrel' graphic seems a pretty good graphic to indicate
a piece that moves as a knight/alfil/dabbaba. The name 'squirrel' also is
often 
used for a piece that moves like this.
still, to suit all tastes and allow variety on game courier, it can't
hurt having a 'knight/alfil/dabbaba' piece like you want.

James Spratt wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 08:49 AM UTC:
I don't know if drawing a piece in a way which describes its move, or
including some kind of graphic move indicator, like the Drapt pieces, is
practical, mainly because the icons may be adopted for another variant
later and its move altered.  I tried marking the bases of my Jetan variant
sculpted pieces at first with graphic indicators, but that locks you in to
one type of move for that piece, which isn't always desirable if you want
to use the same piece differently in another variant.

A few things I realized while studying Jean-Louis Cazaux' set:

Icons can be either instantly recognizable by most people, such as most
animals are, or they must be memorized, such as abstract or heraldic
images must be.  While abstract or heraldic icons can lend dignity to the
look of a board, they can steepen the learning curve of a new game a
little due to the fact that a new player must first labor to remember what
the pieces are, in addition to how they move. That's okay if you like the
game to look more mysterious to newcomers, or make them work a little
harder; the experienced player will have a stronger advantage over a
newcomer at first, also. 

All the icons in a set should look like they were drawn by the same hand.
Consistency of size, color, or line quality and execution tend to unify
any single piece with its brothers.  Although realistic draftsmanship can
be a nice feature, it is not a necessary feature, except for easy piece
identification at first; consistency of 'look' across a piece-set is
more important, and there are an infinite number of ways to stylize icons
homogeneously.

I am partial to realism, or possibly a cartoony but recognizable type of
whimsy, as the best look for icons, based on my experience with art, which
has always shown me that more people like realism than abstraction, mostly
because they can tell if you got it right or not. I've always had to keep
an eye out for the new customer because I believe that to expand the
client-base I have to make it easy for them to recognize the subject, then
show them something new about it (content) and feel that the same thing is
true with any form of art, such as chess icons.

James Spratt wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 09:41 AM UTC:
I've dug around to find the location of David Howe's Alfaerie set
additions, and for the life of me I can't find that goofy Frog I swear I
saw in it somewhere. He was so funny-looking I almost fell out of my chair
laughing; I want to know what that Frog has been smoking. I think it was at
the bottom of a long piece-list of a new game that Jeremy posted not long
ago.  Is there a complete list of the Alfaerie pieces somewhere?
I've noticed that there are lots of fractions of that set here and there;
I've also looked for some kind of Piece Index that a user could go to to
find out what piece does what, what it's called, what its other names
are, what other graphic versions of it look like, etc., but what I can
locate seems piecemeal and scattered. Piececlopedia seems fragmentary,
too.  
The Alfaerie set looks like it's building into quite a toolbox of generic
pieces that could be used for almost anything.  They look clear and
workmanlike to me.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 11:21 AM UTC:
you know i think i saw that frog leaping around 'presiding chess' :)
i am not sure that every alfaerie graphic has a certain type of move, but
maybe it does, i do know that people can use them for varying piece
types.
the frog is a leaper though, it is a 0-3, 1-1 leaper, and it is mentioned
at 'all the king's men' site
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gpjnow/VC-GM.htm
alfaerie has 3 expansion sets, alfaerie2, 3 and 4.
that is the complete set, anything else you see has been done by someone
else, as far as i understand, most likely for a game they made using
alfaerie graphics.

Antoine Fourrière wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 11:31 AM UTC:
The Frog was devised by Tucker Kao for his game Presiding Chess. You can view a list of Alfaerie or Alfaerie-like pieces for the alfaerie-many piece file at this preset.
(I misread Tucker Kao as Tucker Rao, hence the TR_ prefix.)

James Spratt wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 12:15 PM UTC:
That's the one, Antoine, and thanks.  Ha-haaaaaaaa!  He looks like he
swallowed a crawdad that's diggin' its way out, O he'p me!

Archabbot preset, boy, that's one helluva piece collection.  It'd be
hard to improve on it.  I think I'll stick to sets by request for
specific presets and maybe play with some different looks, different
stylizations, explore a little. Joe's waiting for a Postal set and
Jeremy's got some whopper projects.

Magritte wrote on Tue, Jul 4, 2006 05:42 PM UTC:
Interesting comments, M. Spratt, with which I do not disagree.

James Spratt wrote on Wed, Jul 5, 2006 02:51 AM UTC:
Thank you, Magritte; yes, a very stimulating and productive exchange. 
C'est bon.

Jeremy Good wrote on Thu, Jul 6, 2006 02:30 PM UTC:

Are there pieces people would like to see made that currently have no graphics? I'd like to know whether anyone has done a graphic for the pieces in Tripunch Chess, for instance the Aanca described in this essay.

Described there is a piece which makes a one step Rook move, i.e., wazir move, and then continues outwards as a Bishop.

I have seen people refer to an aanca as belonging in Grande Acedrex, but aren't they confusing the Aanca with the Gryphon?

This piece is very closely related to Eric Greenwood's Duke piece, but not quite the same.

D - Duke: moves one square straight and any # diagonally; or any # diagonally and one straight. May not jump or move to an adjacent square.


Gary Gifford wrote on Thu, Jul 6, 2006 05:01 PM UTC:
Jeremy: I would like to see additional Spearmen so there is a complete set
to allow pointing in all 8 directions (for a conventional Fide board).

They can be made by flipping the exisiting Spearmen - but 2 horizontal
Spearmen will still need to be created.  Perhaps direction changes can be
done via a command code for a smaller set of '3 key' Spearmen (Point
up/down; point left/right; point 45 degree angle (4 cases)?

Anyway, I will need to have white, red, blue and green Spearmen for my
upcoming 4-Handed Elephant Chess pre-set.  I suppose I can make them. 
Then, should I send them to you along with the other color pieces needed?

James Spratt wrote on Thu, Jul 6, 2006 06:31 PM UTC:
Gary, I could do the 8 Spearmen, if you don't mind them looking sort of
like the Pikeman in Imperial Chess. I'm thinking about expanding that
piece-set, but maybe you'd prefer your own look?
Jeremy, the Bent pieces are going to be difficult to symbolize, I think. 
I'm a little in the dark about background colors, so I'll just send you
what I've got so far in jpg and you tell me if you can work with it or
not.  Once I know we've got the technical part of it whipped, I'll feel
freer to get down to drawing.

Jeremy Good wrote on Fri, Jul 7, 2006 01:12 AM UTC:

Gary: If you don't mind, please do, and please copy Antoine when you do and ask him to add them to the Alfaerie - Many. Also, if you could send the other colored pieces that we don't already have in Alfaerie - Many, such as the green and blue and red colored elephants, colored crooked rooks, etc. Would be deeply appreciated. Should be lots of fun to play. Thanks. (I'd do it myself but creation of even the most rudimentary graphics is just beyond my reach at the moment. Apologies.)

James, looking forward to seeing your tripunch ideas. Thank you.


Jeremy Good wrote on Sat, Jul 8, 2006 04:03 PM UTC:
Has anyone done a graphic for the sissa?

James Spratt wrote on Sat, Jul 8, 2006 04:45 PM UTC:
You could diversify the SISSA by having a Sissa, a Rook-Sissa, who'd be
obligated to make the rook-leg first, then the bishop-leg, and a
Bishop-Sissa, who'd be obligated to make the bishop-leg first, then the
rook-leg of the move.  Maybe symbolized by a character holding two
weapons--swords, maybe, with one held vertically to symbolize the rook
move, the other held at an angle to symbolize the bishop move. The Sissa
could hold his at the same height, the Rook-Sissa could hold the vertical
one higher, and the Bishop-Sissa could hold the diagonal one higher.

Jeremy Good wrote on Sat, Jul 8, 2006 10:45 PM UTC:
Great ideas, James! The deadly sissa triad will be something to behold.

18 comments displayed

Earlier Reverse Order Later

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.