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Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Mon, May 23, 2011 01:29 AM UTC:
hi, i just need all the experts to help me with some piece info :)
can anyone tell me if they know a game where these types of pieces are
used.
1. Camel/wazir (3-1 leaper and moves one square orthogonally).
2. moves 1 to 3 squares orthogonally, cannot leap (like limited rook).
i guess i'm trying to find the earliest possible game these pieces have
appeared, but any game where they play is ok.
thanks

Jörg Knappen wrote on Mon, Jan 2, 2012 03:35 PM UTC:
I have an answer to your 2nd question:

The R3 is named Kongo (Guardian of Gods) in Taikyoku Shogi.

There's also a B3, named Rikishi (Wrestler) in Taikyoku Shogi.

Note that the Taikyoku Shogi pieces move differently then pieces with the
same name in other larger Shogi variants.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Jan 3, 2012 12:36 AM UTC:
Wow, thanks for that :))
I knew of 'guardian of the gods' being in 'maka dai dai shogi' and
'tai shogi', being a R3 slider with also a 1 square diagonally forward
move, now i see, yes, 'guardian of the gods' in 'taikyoku shogi' omits
the diagonally forward move. Nice!!

I knew about the two different 'wrestler' pieces, i'm pretty sure in
another chat you told me about that when i was searching for a shogi piece
moving 1-3 squares diagonally, hehe.

Thanks again for your help, i'm coding shogi pieces from all the ancient
classic shogi variants to release on a zrf to showcase them all, will be
released this year, it is not a game, just something to showcase the
pieces.
It will have a least more than 120 pieces. The graphics will be done to try
to indicate how the pieces move also just by looking at the piece.

i think now i have done 118 pieces, but i'm getting tired of it lol and
dont know how many more i can do, the shogi pieces seem endless haha. It is
mainly pieces from 'taikyoku' left to do also.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Thu, Jan 5, 2012 12:06 AM UTC:
'Note that the Taikyoku Shogi pieces move differently than pieces with
the same name in other larger Shogi variants.'

Yes it's funny/strange they do that, either with a slight difference or
completely different.
I just noticed in Taikyoku that the King moves 1-2 squares on the queen
lines, only variant with king moving like this (i think).

Talking about limited queen line movers, Taikyoku also has these pieces ..
Leopard King (not royal) - 1 to 5 squares
Heavenly Tetrarch - 1 to 4 squares
Fragrant Elephant and White Elephant - 1 to 2 squares

i also notice the Flying Dragon moves exactly like an Alfil.

Charles Gilman wrote on Thu, Jan 5, 2012 07:00 AM UTC:
This is just the sort of reminder that I needed. I'd recalled talk of the
Lion Dog from someone who'd proposed a 'Bishop's Dog' but had forgotten
the mention of the Wrestler. Recently I've been tending to get rid of
obscure and, as yet, unused specific names in favour of single qualifiers
First I applied Fimbriated to simple Bent riders to give more complex oners
in place of names such as Abbey, Airport, Cathedral, and Spaceport. Then I applied Twice-Pawned Uncubbed to odd-only pieces in place of the Pawer, Brewer, Harrower, Raver, et cetera. It seemed instinctive to devise a common term rather include a one-off Shogi-variant name. Thanks for reminding me that it is not a one-off.
	A phrase like 'Guardian of the Gods' is far from a natural Chessman name for English speakers, and there are variations in the piece anyway, but how about Guardian on its own for the orthogonal piece? By chance adding the forward Ferz moves would, in Man and Beast terminology, give Goldguardian, and Gold is only one letter out from God! Interestingly, Liondog=Guardian+Wrestler unites three names featuring 'weak' letters in the sense of ones lending themselves to (some would say equally weak) puns by their omission on lion/line, guardian/garden, and wrest/rest. I do not recall offhand whether any Shogi variants have forward-only versions of the three pieces, but if not then the omitted letters do give me some idea for such pieces. If anyone does know of existing forward-only ones, please comment here. In the long term I plan to adjust Man and Beast 11 accordingly.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Thu, Jan 5, 2012 09:39 AM UTC:
There is a few shogi pieces that have forward only moves, i could check and
give you a list. Are you wanting pieces that move forward and sideways, or
are you just talking strictly forwards?

oh and yes i was asking a bit ago about a piece that moved 1-3 squares on the diagonal lines, Jorg answered that question.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Thu, Jan 5, 2012 01:11 PM UTC:
Stone General : moves 1 square diagonally forward.

Iron General : moves 1 square in the 3 forward directions.

Evil Wolf: steps 1 square orthogonally sideways or directly forward, or
diagonally forward.

Ram's-head soldier: slides diagonally forward any number of squares.

Wood General: slides 1 or 2 squares diagonally forward.

Enchanted Badger: Steps 1 or 2 squares orthogonally forward or sideways.

Violent Bear: steps 1 square horizontally and one or two squares diagonally
forward.

Flying Cock: steps 1 square orthogonally sideways or diagonally forward.

Lance: moves any number of free squares directly forward (orthogonal).

Keima: leaps 2 squares directly forward like a knight only.

Side Mover: moves any number of free squares orthogonally sideways, or 1
square directly forward.('Heian dai shogi').

Side dragon: moves any number of free squares in a straight line
orthogonally forward or sideways.('Taikyoku shogi').

Running wolf: steps 1 square orthogonally forward or moves any number of
free squares orthogonally sideways or diagonally forward (Taikyoku shogi).

Angry boar: moves 1 square orthogonally forward or sideways or 1-2 squares
diagonally forward (Taikyoku shogi).

Shogi variants checked; wa, chu, heian dai, dai, tenjiku, dai dai, maka dai
dai, tai and taikyoku.

Charles Gilman wrote on Fri, Jan 6, 2012 07:04 AM UTC:
I actually meant specifically versions of the Lion Dog restricted to one or
more forward directions. Most of the ones listed are known to me already.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Fri, Jan 6, 2012 07:17 AM UTC:
ah ok, that is fine anyways i have interest in that list, i didn't realise
there was so many shogi pieces with no backward movement, 14 pieces there.
i want to update my game 'gods on pluto' with a few more pieces that do
not have backward movement, at least putting pieces inside the zrf.

Charles you have name for a piece that is mao + xiang don't you, i think i
seen before, can't remember. Can you tell me, and, can you link where you
where you have piece names for slider and slider compounds not higher than
2 squares? (oh maybe leaper compounds not higher than 2 squares also).

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Jan 10, 2012 02:15 AM UTC:
Great work George posting info on pieces from these old games!
This is really helpful, besides shogi pieces, i also want to release on zrf
all other fairy pieces (well, at least 120+) to showcase them (not a game).

Charles Gilman wrote on Sat, Jan 21, 2012 07:06 AM UTC:
I have just got round to adding Kongo and Rikishi to 'Japanese names' here. Do you know what original Japanese name translates as Lion Dog?

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Sat, Jan 21, 2012 09:08 AM UTC:
lion dog is 'Komainu'

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