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🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 01:00 AM UTC:
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Doctor Who is back! Doctor Who! Doctor
Who!! And I thought this year would just go down in infamy as the year
Star Trek got cancelled without a new Star Trek series on the horizon. And
I don't have to wait for reruns to show up on PBS. I can watch it on CBC,
because I live close enough to Canada, and beginning in April, CBC will be
airing new episodes on Tuesday nights.

Yes, this has absolutely nothing to do with Chess variants. But it is such
incredible good news, and I wanted to share it with my friends here.

David Paulowich wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 01:15 AM UTC:
Good news indeed!  Perhaps we will get to see a thousand year old chess set
on one of the shows.

Larry Smith wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 01:17 AM UTC:
Definitely excellent news!  I've been suffering jelly-babies withdrawal
for so long. ;-)

A Doctor Who Chess game. Hmmmmmmm.  The Doctor versus the Master with
time-jumps.  I've got a Temporal 4x4x4 Chess game which might be
converted for this form of play.  With the shape of the playing field, it
might be called Tardis Chess.

Greg Strong wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 01:28 AM UTC:
Crap.  I see no word whatsoever on the website about airing on BBC America.
 *sigh*   Oh well, at least there's E-mule...

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 01:38 AM UTC:
Michael Howe's comment has reminded me of the old computer game Daleks,
which is Chess-like in some respects. It is a turn-based game played
against the computer, in which you move the Doctor around in the same way
that a Chess King moves. The computer plays with the object of catching
the Doctor, while the human plays with the object of avoiding the Daleks.
The computer moves all of its Daleks at once, one space at a time. I
forget if they move like Wazirs or Kings. Besides moving one space per
turn, the Doctor can occassionally teleport or kill surrounding Daleks
with a sonic screwdriver. Daleks die when they bump into each other or run
into the remains of dead Daleks. So the human player tries to kill off the
Daleks before they catch him. When the Doctor succeeds in this, the game
moves to a new, more difficult level, making the ultimate goal the
attainment of a high score.

Jared McComb wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 12:44 PM UTC:
Omigosh omigosh Daleks! I love it -- truly classic stuff. <p>Daleks move like Kings and will always move orthogonally towards you if you are on the same rank or file and diagonally towards you otherwise. Also you can opt to stay put for a turn, instead of moving. Also, teleporting moves you to a completely random space. <p>I have a Daleks clone around here somewhere that makes you a smileyface and the Daleks into generic robots, but some of them (red ones) move two spaces in one turn.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 03:03 PM UTC:
I'm not surprised to find many other Doctor Who fans here. I think this
show exemplifies the same love of variety that draws people to Chess
variants. It is about a guy who can travel to any time and place, who goes
around with various (usually attractive female) companions, and can even
regenerate his whole body, taking on a new appearance and personality. If
I could be any TV character, I think it would be the Doctor.

Regarding a Doctor Who Chess variant, this is a tough one, because the
main themes of Doctor Who don't seem to translate to any single CV idea.
I rather imagine a game in which a player could teleport from one CV to
another, which would just be too wild. But maybe a card-based game,
similar to Knightmare Chess, but with a Doctor Who theme, would be most
fitting to this show.

Larry Smith wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2005 10:02 PM UTC:
I had thought that the Daleks would move either as Bishops or Unicorns in
the 3D playing field.  This is because they most maintain contact with a
specific portion of the field for power.

They would capture a piece by merely taking any adjacent cell without
moving, like the Shogi Lion.  Their movement would be without capture.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Mar 11, 2005 12:56 AM UTC:
While putting together a display of Doctor Who magazines today, I found a
flyer for a Doctor Who Chess set. I found it sitting on some magazines I
had already laid out, as though some invisible hand had set it there for
me. I imagine it fell out of an issue without my noticing it. It is one of
those sculpted Chess sets made by a mint. The White pieces are the good
guys, while the Black pieces are villains. By paging through various
Doctor Who magazines, I was able to identify most of the pieces I didn't
recognize right away. But then I got sidetracked by articles about Sarah
Jane Smith and Elisabeth Sladen. I was able to identify the full White
side, but the Black pieces had their backs turned in the photo, and I
didn't recognize a couple. Here is what I did recognize:

White:
King -- Doctor (There are seven White Kings, one for each Doctor from the
TV show)
Queen -- Leela
Bishops -- The Brigadier and Kamelion
Knights -- Jamie McCrimmon and Adric
Rook -- Tardis
Pawn -- K9

Black:
King -- Master
Queen -- unknown person with long hair
Bishops -- Cyberman and Draconian Emperor
Knights -- Sea Devil and Ice Warrior
Rooks -- unknown guys in armor and helmets
Pawns -- Daleks

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 04:05 AM UTC:
I have now identified the remaining pieces in the Doctor Who Chess set that
I did not identify before. The Black Rooks are Sontarans, and the Black
Queen is the Rani.

Larry Smith wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 09:23 AM UTC:
Still thinking about the basic dynamics of a new Doctor Who Chess game, and
considering a game between un-equal armies.  For the sake of development,
I'm starting with a plain 2D game.  But the field will probably be much
larger than 8x8.

Possibly the Doctor's force could have special powers associated with
co-operative conditions.  For example: being able to capture any enemy
piece 'sandwiched' between two friendly pieces.

And the Master's special powers could have a self-destructive quality. 
For example:  A piece self-destructs taking out all pieces located
adjacent.  Or a piece, like the Shogi Fire Demon, is able to burn all
adjacent pieces both friend and foe.

Also most of the pieces of the Doctor's forces might have the ability to
simply slide without capturing.  This is to simulate the running around
that often occurs in the stories.

I figure that the Dalek should be the Pawn of the Master's forces.  But
it should step diagonal without capture, and attack any one adjacent cell
without moving as a turn.

What would make a good Pawn for the Doctor?  Possibly K9, but does anyone
have a better idea?  And what would its powers be?

David Paulowich wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 04:31 PM UTC:
A GOOGLE search of Newsgroup: rec.arts.drwho produced an Oct. 23 1995 post,
which confirms Fergus Duniho's list of pieces.  Here is a quote for the
Black army:

KING = the Master 
QUEEN = the Rani 
BISHOP = Draconian and Cyberman 
KNIGHT = Sea Devil and Ice Warrior 
ROOK = Sontarons 
PAWNS = the Daleks

Greg Strong wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 04:52 PM UTC:
To anyone interested in seeing the first episode of the new Doctor Who:
It is easy available on file sharing utilities (probably stolen by a BBC
Wales employee.)  I won't say anything specific about it, so as not to
spoil it; I will only say that the characterization of new Doctor will not
disappoint! And his companion is just about as georgous as possible.  Also,
the video quality of this avi release is outstanding!  'Rose' is the
episode title.

David Paulowich wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 06:34 PM UTC:
Around eight years ago I used to read 'Doctor Who: The Internet
Adventures' on the Newsgroups.  Here is  a brief excerpt from the
multiauthor story: TIMEWAR - Chapter 10 - 'Endgame' by C. A Reed Jr. 

                            *   *   * 

The Black knight threatening the White King and Queen slowly 
reformed itself. It lightened in color until it matched the white 
pieces, and the figure itself reshaped itself into the image of the 
other two white Knights. The only reaction from the old man's 
opponent was the tightening of a hand into a fist. 
   The old man shook his head slowly. 'You really have to know 
your pieces before you can use them to their best advantage.' He 
moved the reformed Knight to a new square near the other two 
Knights. 'I always enjoyed this game more then cards -- a little 
less random. Your move.'

Larry Smith wrote on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 11:58 PM UTC:
I like the idea that pieces might change sides during the game.  This
effect could be associated with the temporal jumps.  Obviously, a change
in the space-time continuum might result in such shifts.

What would be the condition of such shifts?

I would restrict temporal jumps specificially to the Doctor and the Master
piece.  But they each might be able to take associate pieces with them. 
The temporal jump could be seen as a shock-wave which results in any
pieces which are threatened or defended by this piece(and its
companion[s]) shifting sides.  Gaining an opposing piece would definitely
be positive.  And possibly losing a friendly piece might be the price to
pay for such a move.

Temporal jumps would need be controlled.  There needs to be very
restrictive conditions for such.  Ones that allow the opposing player the
opportunity to deny a player this ability.  This might be associated with
the control of a key and/or a particular piece.  This actually might be a
Tardis piece which is non-moving, except when it space-time leaps.  The
control of this piece might be based upon possession of its key.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Mar 14, 2005 02:01 PM UTC:
I don't think there has ever been much switching of sides on Doctor Who.
Turlough is the only one who comes to mind, and he switched sides because
he was inspired by the Doctor's good example to turn good, not because of
any temporal jump.

As for the Doctor's Pawns, I'm thinking U.N.I.T. soldiers would be good.

Larry Smith wrote on Mon, Mar 14, 2005 09:58 PM UTC:
Good point, Fergus.  So I would not allow all pieces to be shifted,
possibly only Pawns.  These would represent fluctuations in the space-time
matrix.

So, a temporal jump might result in a large number of enemy 'soldiers'
to face.  But such shifts ought to be limited, or at least conditional.

Good idea about U.N.I.T. Soldiers as Pawns.  How would they move?  They
should offer a nice complement to the Daleks.

I was also thinking that pieces should also be used as in Shogi.  If
captured they become the property of the capturer.  They would then turn
into their counterpart and may be dropped on a turn.   This would
guarantee sufficient material for any win condition.

I had a musing about this particular condition, if the Doctor and Master
pieces were allowed to be captured and turned this could result in either
two Doctors or two Masters on the field.  But this would necessitate that
neither be the actual goal of the game.

And might the Doctor and Master have multiple 'lives'?

I was also thinking about the Tardis piece.  It could be a neutral piece
which could be used by either player and controlled by an off-board
piece(the key).  The players would lose and gain possesion of this key
under specific conditions.

What would be the goal of the game?

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Mar 15, 2005 03:47 AM UTC:
While looking through Doctor Who magazines today, I found an article on the
Chess set I mentioned earlier. It listed what the pieces were, and its list
matched my identifications except that it listed the Black Knights as Sea
Devil and Terileptil instead of Sea Devil and Ice Warrior. But I just
found a picture of a Terileptil, and it doesn't look like any of the
pieces in the flyer, whereas the Ice Warrior, shown in the same picture,
does. The article was written before the full set was released, and the
piece lineup may have changed in the meantime, or the author may have made
a mistake. The article included some pictures, but none were of the Black
Knights.

With respect to a Doctor Who CV, I don't really have a clear idea of how
Doctor Who could be translated into a CV. It is too diverse of a show to
really lend itself to any clear CV idea. It might be better to isolate
certain aspects of the show and see what can be done with them. For
example, suppose a checkmated King could regenerate, causing the goal of
the game to be something more than simple checkmate. Or maybe a particular
storyline or scenario could serve as the basis of a game.

Although an unequal armies game would echo the diversity of the show, it
would be tricky business, because the armies of any good CV should be
balanced. Ralph Betza spent years coming up with the precise armies for
Chess with Different Armies, and comparable work would be required for an
unequal armies Doctor Who CV. Of course, in the spirit of good always
triumphing over evil on Doctor Who, we might purposely make it unbalanced
so that the Doctor's side normally wins. I think that would be truer to
the TV show, though it wouldn't make a better game.

One more thing to consider is that Doctor Who is a merchandisable product
of the BBC, and rights to some parts of the Doctor Who universe are owned
by various writers, such as the Daleks, the rights to which are owned by
Terry Nation. We would either have to get the permission of the BBC and
various Doctor Who writers, or disclaim any officialness and hope the
owners of the characters used in the game don't complain.

Larry Smith wrote on Tue, Mar 15, 2005 05:49 AM UTC:
Fan-based projects are usually tolerated, as long as there is no attempt to
profit without permission or utilize protected items in an in-appropriate
manner.  Satirical approaches offer a wider venue.

But it does not hurt to ask permission.  The worst that can happen is they
can say 'No!'  I would be very surprise if the subsequent set of rules
was not accept-able.

In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to discuss and speculate.  Once the
project has been worked up, an outline can be sent to the proper persons
for any necessary approval.

***************************

The capture of the Doctor or Master could result in its owner needing to
buy it back with a particular token denoting a 'new life'.  The piece
must then be immediately place on the field on that turn, so that a player
must always maintain this particular piece on the field.

The 'new life' token can be earned during play.  It could start with one
player and shift between them as the goal pieces are ransomed.  So having
your Doctor/Master captured without a 'new life' token would mean the
loss of the game. This condition could be met as a simple checkmate, as a
player without a 'new life' token would not be able to leave their goal
piece under attack. 

I suggest that the Master player begin with this token, giving the Doctor
player the incentitive to make the first capture.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 02:39 AM UTC:
Curiously enough, I have learned from reading Doctor Who magazines that
there is a writer on Doctor Who named David Howe. I read at least one
article by him and saw him mentioned various places. On doing a Google
search on the name David Howe, this one got the top spot, and our David
Howe got the second. Anyhow, they are not the same person. They don't
look the same, and they live on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

Anyway, I'm thinking that one of the primary characteristics of the
Doctor Who TV show is its randomness. The Doctor would frequently let his
TARDIS take him hither and thither at random, not knowing where or when he
would turn up next. Also, when the Doctor regenerated, he could not control
or predict what changes this would have on his personality, though maybe he
would have some foreknowledge from meeting his future selves. But, of
course, the cast, audience, and writers would not have this
foreknowledge.

So what I'm thinking is that a Doctor Who variant should have some kind
of random element to it. For example, a checkmated King might regenerate
into some random combination of any two one or two space leapers, and if
this allowed him to escape checkmate, then the game could continue. And
maybe he could also be limited to the number of regenerations. I'm also
still thinking that a card game, similar to Knightmare Chess, would be
appropriate.

Larry Smith wrote on Wed, Mar 16, 2005 04:36 AM UTC:
Nice idea about the variety of possible Doctors.  What could also be
included in the buy-back using the 'new life' token is the application
of generation of new potential powers for the new Doctor.  And would this
apply to the Master?.

This can be a simple list of possible 'king' types.  If they are to be
selected randomly, the number of them ought to reflect a multiple of a
common die(6).  These different 'king' types can be of a wide variety,
from the simple stepping 'king' to the powerful leaping 'emperor'.

But might this regeneration reflect any of the common Chess moves.  For
example: Pawn, Knight, Bishop, Rook, Queen or King.  That makes six. ;-)

But rather than a random selection of the potential types, the player
might have a list of potentials to choose from.  And each could only be
chosen once.  Such can be up to the discretion of the player, or the
opponent.

With the 'new life' token and the changing nature of the goal piece,
this game would be very interesting play.

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