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Diagram testing thread[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Kevin Pacey wrote on 2023-01-31 UTC

Here's a diagram for a (16x8) CV invention idea of mine, which might be called Constable-Spiel, that I can study at my leisure (Fast Castling rules as in Wide Chess, and FIDE pawn rules):

diagram

Stone's Chess. Hidden Two archbishop variation. (8x10, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

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ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-31 UTC

Ok, HG, thanks!


Interactive diagrams. (Updated!) Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2023-01-31 UTC

I am getting less and less happy with the WeirdPromotion() and BadZone() extension system for the Interactive Diagram. It is inconvenient that these are two different functions, and a shortcoming of WeirdPromotion() is its limited power for adding side effects to the move, and that it gets passed only a single locust square (while the NewClick entry system allows arbitrary many locust victims). This has been somewhat ameliorated by the kamikaze and burn/atomic pseudo-promotion codes, but there still remain lots of things that cannot be done.

It would be much better to have a single user-supplied function AlterMove(move), which gets the internal move representation passed as the single argument. This move representation is an array, which contains the coordinates of all involved squares (origin, destination, all locust squares, all squares where e.p. rights are generated, the promotion piece...). And what is even better: AlterMove() could make changes in that, (like adding locust squares), which would affect the original. As, unlike scalar objects, when an array gets passed to a function it will be the real thing, not a copy. So it could directly alter the promotion choice in the move, rather than returning it as a result, and leaving it for the standard code to incorporate it in the move.

The return value then could be reserved for signalling only. Like indicating that the move or promotion choice is forbidden, so that the move should be deleted from the move list. Or that the move is winning (e.g. by reaching a goal square). Or that a move thought to be a non-promotion should unexpectedly offer promotion choice (making the standard script duplicate the move, this time with other promotion choices, subjecting these again to AlterMove() to test whether these are allowed, and add those to the  move list when they are).

This would for instance also allow implementation of pieces like the Ultima Coordinator, which might need locust captures on distant squares at the intersection of its coordinate lines and those of the King. By switching the Diagram's tracking function on, the location of the King would be easily available, and the AlterMove() routine would just have to combine these with the coordinates of the destination on a Coordinator move, test whether there is an enemy there, and if there is, add it as a locust square to the move.

For backward compatibility the standard script could contain a default function for AlterMove(), which it invokes if the user has supplied a WeirdPromotion() or BadZone(), to call the latter two for the move in question, and translate the return values to the actions these request. (Like altering the promotion piece, or return the 'forbidden' code.) This seems a simpler and more powerful system. Perhaps some standard routines could be offered to simplify writing AlterMove(), like AddLocustSquare(move, x, y).

I am also wondering if I should devote some attention to configurable use of the trackPieces functionality in such a standard version of AlterMove(). Passive effects on adjacent pieces are not that uncommon in variants, especially immobilization. So where trackPieces=N now just serves to switch on the tracking for non-zero N, I could have N indicate a piece type for which the adjacent squares should automatically be marked in a neighbors[] array indexed by square number. And supply a new Diagram parameter neighbors, which could be given the values immobilize, pacify or burn, which then would activate to either forbid all moves with a piece standing on a marked square, forbid all its captures, or make moves to a marked square kamikaze moves, respectively. Then these rules could be implemented purely by configuration, without writing any script.


ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2023-01-31 UTC

Short follow-up on posting diagrams: You must only write the board part of the FEN between the tages; the other stuff contained in a FEN would not be expressed in the image anyway. When I place your FEN between the tags I get this:

These are not the pieces you want; apparently the standard meaning for C is Cannon, for S Squirrel, and for J it is Camel. But that doesn't have to discourage you: you can either try an alternative likely letter (like M for Marshall), or replace the letter by the full name of the Alfaerie image in braces ({berolinapawn} and {fool}:

[ fen]3{FOOL}3k1w/10/10/8p1/2P5Pp/1{SERGEANT}7P/5{sergeant}4/10/4m4{fool}/7BK1[ /fen] gives

 


Mansindam (Pantheon tale). (Updated!) A variant that combines 'drop' rule and strong pieces, and there is no draw. (9x9, Cells: 81) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Daphne Snowmoon wrote on 2023-01-31 UTC

Manshindam can be played here !

https://pychess-mansindam.onrender.com/


Chess 1010. Game played with 40 pieces. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Kevin Pacey wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

@ editor(s): The text on the rules page of Chess 1010 has become a bit bunched up in places, without my making any changes to the published submission; maybe other submissions of mine or other members' may have also been affected somehow, by change(s) to this website(?)

@ David:

You're welcome to try to improve Chess 1010, even in case it's out of all recognition. It was one of my earlier CV inventions, that so far has attained zero popularity, at least on CVP site. My idea was to have only the Ks guard the pawn diagonally next to it (in front of a B) like in chess, so that said pawn might possibly be more menacingly attacked by a B (plus/or another piece, maybe) later in the game.

However, the asymmetric positioning of the other B (set beside each player's Q, so that it wouldn't attack the i-pawn guarded by an enemy B in the setup, or possibly an enemy g-pawn on its 5th rank) may be one thing that repulsed more than a few CV players about Chess 1010 thus far. Another thing being that many may like the pawn promotion rules of Grand Chess. Or, that any small change(s) to a CV with established popularity (i.e. Grand Chess, here) are not welcomed too much since people would rather play what's already popular.

A while back there was a discussion about underpromotions in CVs, a topic that Greg mentioned to me as interesting you. Here's a link with a comment thread where I gave a number of diagrams for cases I dreamt up of justifiable underpromotions in 8x8 Seirawan Chess (I've yet to come across a CV where I've noticed it's somehow provable that some underpromotion(s) are absolutely unnecessary to ever allow by the CV's rules):

https://www.chessvariants.com/opinions.dir/fergus/design.html

Somewhere I got the idea that you are from Prince Edward Island, Canada. If so, you might possibly know Fred McKim, long-time Treasurer for the Chess Federation of Canada (CFC) - I reside in Ottawa (born on NATO airbase in France near Germany).


Game Courier Logs. View the logs of games played on Game Courier.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Fergus Duniho wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

It was using the wrong case for the promotion. It will now enter that move as N 7g-5j; +N-dest and work correctly.


ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

And because it was facing a difficult position white decided to go for a draw. Thanks Greg!


Greg Strong wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

That's right. If white's last move was a chancellor, then it is a stalemate by either the old rules or the new rules.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

White's previous move was by a chancellor from h8 to h10. That chancellor got captured. I now think I know what you mean, is what's the black joker's current power. The stalemate/checkmate status depends on that. And because the last moved white piece until white moves again is a chancellor that does not attack the king. We have a stalemate here.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

No matter about my previous comment.


Greg Strong wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

I have no idea what you mean


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

Agreed, but I'm not sure if it is a different stalemate.


Greg Strong wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

Ok, diagram updated with Chancellor.

What was White's last move? The version you have doesn't have the updated rules yet, so the black joker can't move. In the updated version, the black joker will have the ability of white's last move, which could make it a checkmate if it attacks the white king. Otherwise, it is still a stalemate under the new rules. Any piece white moves would lead to white's king being in check by the black joker. Even white moving joker (imitating a king) would make black's joker imitate a king and therefore it is still check. Since white cannot move, it's a stalemate.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

The short story is that black has just captured an chancellor on h10 and white is to move. The version that I have (I think is the last one published) gives now a stalemate. The long story is that any piece moved by white leads to a king capture by black in the next move. Here actually the black chancellor on e2 has a role to play. The difference from the studies we already have is that a role is played by the white joker who inherits and transmits a king (more actually a man I think) power. Is that in the second case a checkmate or a stalemate? It looks like ChessV as white has sacrificed it's chancellor for an easy draw, but is this a way for black to checkmate the opponent? And most important how should it be? I am confused by this myself. Depending on what you can do Greg, I am ready to adjust the rules in these rare cases. The most important thing is though, that the rules are clear for everybody.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

And c is a chancellor, but this actually has no importance!


Greg Strong wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

This should be close enough for discussion:

diagram

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

The fen of the position, as is found in chessV, is this:

3J3k1w/10/10/8p1/2P5Pp/1S7P/5s4/10/4c4j/7BK1 w - - 0 78

but I did not manage to do it. Here J stands for joker, w stands for wizard, s stands for maasai pawn. The rest are self explanatory.


Game Courier Logs. View the logs of games played on Game Courier.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
ChessVA computer program
. Program for playing numerous Chess variants against your PC.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

Indeed, it automatically invokes the Diagram Designer, with default settings. For a static image that should be good enough. You can also use the Interactive Diagram as a game viewer, by including a parameter moveList= , followed by all the moves of the game. This preloads the game in the Diagram, and you can then use the buttons in the AI panel to navigate through it.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

Oklh, that is using the diagram designer, isn't it?


H. G. Muller wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

You just write a FEN of the position between [ fen] and [ /fen] tags, somewhere in the text of your comment.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

I think I have encountered a new situation involving the joker. I want to post a png with the position but I don't know how. Can someone tell me how to add a picure in the comments?


Home page of The Chess Variant Pages. Homepage of The Chess Variant Pages.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on 2023-01-30 UTC

Ok, but then what is the problem?


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